Balancing Guilt and Life: Insights from Marie O'Neill, a MD and Mother in Dubai
Marie O’Neill is an Irish woman in her early 40s living in Dubai. She is the co-owner and Managing Director of EER, one of the Middle East’s leading relocation, immigration, and corporate services companies, a wife, and a mother to two (one a very newborn baby).
She loves her company, gets to the gym, and speaks on panels and boards around the world.
How does she fit that into a life? Let's ask her.
We discuss:
seasons of finding balance
delegation and accountability
societal pressures around working mothers
concrete tools you can use when guilt is showing up in your life
the challenges that go along with utilizing support with your kids
the value in allowing time for your mental health and wellbeing
Prefer to listen to the full podcast click here Guilt and balance as a MD and mother in Dubai.
In this conversation I sit down with Marie O'Neill, she is originally from Ireland, she's in her early forties living in Dubai and has done so for a long time. She's got a big job. She's the co owner and managing director of a leading relocation, immigration and corporate services company. So Manages a big team offices based in multiple locations.
And she is a mother to two children. She was pregnant at the time of this conversation. So she's got a really newborn baby. Congratulations, Marie. She talks about loving her work. And also that struggle for balance in between work and professional desires and career wants and family commitments and personal desires and relationship, which I think so many of us can really relate to and we dive into the guilt and the emotional strain that can often be associated with being present in both worlds, [00:01:00] um, especially from a female perspective and also talk about learning to prioritize adapting, shifting, changing, allowing support.
So there are so many nuggets in this conversation, which I think are going to be useful to you. Thank you, Marie, for your time and let's dive in everybody.
Hi lovelies, this is Maude, Women's Burnout and Leadership Coach. You're listening to the Work, Family, Me podcast, a series of conversations with women from different cultures and industries around the world about the behind the scenes of earning money, parenting, being in relationship and adulting all at the same time.
Here we will discuss the challenges ideas and support structures that show up in co earning dual parenting situations and talk through some helpful strategies and mindsets. [00:02:00] Why? So that you as a busy working woman can learn from others, implement what could make your life a little bit easier. And share these with your family, friends, and colleagues.
We are at the forefront of working, parenting, and relating in a totally different way to previous generations. And there can be so much value in validating this and learning with each other. I'm so happy that you're here. Let's dive into the conversation for today.
Marie, we made it after months of going backwards and forwards and scheduling, which is the fate of the busy woman everywhere. Um, could you briefly introduce yourself, where you are, what your work is and what your family situation is? Thank you, Maud, and thank you for having me. Yes, so I'm based in Dubai in the UAE and Middle East.
My name is Marie O'Neill, originally from Ireland. Been living in Dubai for the last 16 years. I'm [00:03:00] co owner and managing director of EER. Uh, Corporate Services, Emigration, and Destination Services Company, offering services across the Middle East. Um, I'm married with a three year old daughter, and I'm eight months pregnant with my second baby.
Um, so that's my, my home life, my I suppose, work and home life situation. So a big job, lots of people, depending on you, various offices across the region and a big home life, right? You've got a partner, you've got a baby on the way, you've got a toddler, um, who needs attention and love. Talk us through how you handle a regular week with work and family and health and life and adulting and everything in between.
Bye. Thanks. Yes, that's, um, a difficult question, Maude, and I suppose it depends what hour of the day or what day of the week you asked me that, how I would answer it. Um, and look, I'll be very [00:04:00] honest in saying that it is difficult. Um, since I had my daughter, I suppose it's brought a whole new dynamic into the world and balancing work with home life is quite difficult.
Some weeks easier than others. Um, and I think, you know, I had my daughter at the age of 38. uh, very career driven, um, you know, owning my own business. I think that shift and that change from when my life was basically the company and work to then having to fit a family in. Obviously I had my husband before that, but he was used to becoming As he said, number two to EER are always, but when, you know, a daughter, a baby arrives, then they have to be number one.
And I found that dynamic very difficult. Um, and that change and shift to my life difficult. And, you know, I'm, I'm very much a person that likes to be in control. I'm a driver. Um, you know, a perfectionist in many ways and likes to have things organized. And [00:05:00] as we all know, um, a baby isn't, doesn't confine to those, um, things in control and, you know, having a set schedule.
No, exactly. It's just up in the air. And, you know, I'd honestly say that the first year I did find that very difficult and I struggled. Um, and I'm still finding it hard to get the balance. And. You know, I'll be very open in saying that I see somebody every second week, a lady for. you know, mindfulness and stress management.
And she helps me through a lot of obstacles that I come across. And I think, you know, getting that balance is for everyone, I think, is difficult. And I think for a working mother. And someone that has their own business and is quite work focused and quite driven. And that driver personality, getting that balance is very difficult.
Um, and I think it's a constant, uh, journey and trying to keep that balance and [00:06:00] sustain it. And, you know, a typical week for me, I travel a lot, probably travel too much, going to conferences and doing the BD side of the business. You know, there, there is an awful lot of guilt that comes with that as well.
Um, and you know, I'm lucky living in Dubai in the Middle East. I do have a live in nanny and some very good help, but even with that, it's difficult. And I think as a mother. You know, you feel guilty with traveling with going to work and leaving your daughter with somebody else. I have a very supporting husband, but you know, I suppose we have struggled as well in the last few years since our daughter's come into our lives.
And I suppose that, you know, shift in our whole relationship shifting with the, the change in our lifestyle. We used to travel and go on holidays a lot, or maybe a conference, he would come along at the end or the beginning. So that's all changed. So getting time. I think for my husband and the whole picture is very difficult as well when, you know, my daughter, I suppose, is getting that little bit of time outside of work [00:07:00] now when that used to be my husband.
So it is, you know, every week is different. Every week is challenging and you put on a brave face and, you know, you go to a conference or you go into work in your meetings and, you know, everyone thinks everything is okay at home, but it, it, it's difficult and it's hard to balance that and you do have ups and downs.
So it sounds like you're saying I've got support at home. So the logistics of, you know, making breakfast or doing laundry or, um, taking to school or fetching, those things are covered and I can relax about them, but there's that feeling or that yearning or that. wondering of, am I putting my energy in the right place?
Or if I'm here, then I'm wondering if I should be there. And when I'm there, I'm wondering what's going on over, you know, on the other side and that kind of mental, uh, shifting and being a different context. It's kind of like mentally you're being pulled from one direction to the other. And yes, and I would [00:08:00] say I am blessed compared to people in other parts of the world and my friends back home in Ireland, the UK, not having any help.
You know, we are very fortunate living in the Middle East to have help that, yeah, the cooking, the cleaning, all of that is taken care of. And my daughter is very well taken care of. I suppose the mental guilt of not spending as much time as I would want to spend with her, but saying that I love my work so much, I want to spend the time at work.
So it's like a constant battle on, when I'm in work, I'm guilty that I'm not at home. When I'm at home with my daughter, I'm guilty that I'm not in work. So it's just finding that balance where you don't feel as guilty. And I suppose, you know, what I've learned, especially over the last few months, You know, I've, I've cut back a bit and you say, if I went to a conference, I'd spend the day at home with my daughter before or the day when I come back as well, a day with her and it's, it's, it's as well as learning not to feel guilty about spending that time and having [00:09:00] quality time so that then when you're in work, you don't feel as guilty because you've had that quality time.
So, you know, I think what I've got a better control of or better balance over the last probably five or six months with not feeling as guilty when I am taking a day or two off at home, spending up my daughter, knowing that I'm going on a trip and I'll be away for a week or two, and vice versa.
So I think, being hard on yourself to get that balance. You're actually a better mother and better time than , with your family and you're more productive and better in work if you can take that time and balance with both. Almost that intentionality with time and permission for I'm here right now and I'm going to let that be enough, right?
Of like, maybe it's one hour, maybe it's one day, but I'm really committed. I'm here. I'm not thinking about a million other things. And then when I'm there, I'm really committed and I'm there. I'm pausing here. Because [00:10:00] I want to really highlight this sweet point that Marie makes, um, around her learning around balance or time and the call into quality, um, versus.
Maybe quantity, right? She's talking about traveling for work. She's talking about having busy workday. She's talking about, you know, going to conferences and thinking for herself. Well, what would help to maybe deepen the connection with my daughter or have a little bit of time where I feel like I'm really connecting.
I'm really present to help me then be in the moment of the conference and not be constantly thinking, Oh, I should have my more time with my daughter. Or when I'm with my daughter thinking, Oh, I need to go and be taking care of things at work, or I need to be preparing for, um, a conference. So she's really intentionally built time around having quality time.
And so that's uninterrupted, focused time with her daughter [00:11:00] before she goes away to travel. And then again, when she comes back to her. And so maybe that looks different in your life. Um, but I think there's such a value in, um, being intentional around carving out time and then really being fully in that, in that moment.
And maybe that's, you know, 15 minutes at the end of the day where you are connecting with your child and looking at them in the face and asking about their day or snuggling or wrestling or whatever it is for you and your family dynamic, where you're really connected and really tuning into. What's going on for your person and then when you're at work, you are really tuning into what's going on in your career with your peers, with your team, with your goals, with your clients, whatever it is, and focusing on that quality versus quantity.
I think a lot of us are trying to do multiple things all at the same time and then having that feeling of not good enough anywhere and limiting [00:12:00] that or. Um, protecting that or carving out these times of intentional pockets and really practicing the presence of being where your feet are can be so, so helpful for this.
Exactly. And you know, when you are with your family, not being on your phone all the time, realizing, you know, we're not heart surgeons, what we do. And if we don't look at your phone or answer an email for an hour or two, it's okay. Um, and to have that and be fully present and enjoy that time when it is family time.
And then when you're in work or, you know, be a hundred percent committed to it or be in that zone, then it's, I think, and as you said, it's being strict with yourself, you know, and I've. Started to become strict at my calendar as well, where I've days blocked where I don't have any meetings or I can work from home and it's, you know, I, I'm my own worst enemy at times.
And even everyone says to me, I don't know how you have as many meetings as you have, you know, it's saying yes to everyone. I think as you become, you know, a [00:13:00] working mother in your own business, I think it's very important to be able to say no. And to really prioritize your time that every minute you are in work or working or traveling, it's having meaningful meetings, meaningful trips where, you know, you're making the most of your time and you are prioritizing and you are delegating as much as you possibly can.
Because otherwise it just is too difficult and that's hard. That's, that's really hard to get that. I was talking to one of my one on one clients the other day about delegating and pushing back and how tricky that can be when you know you can do it faster and how that really shoots you in the foot.
Right. Because when you keep doing the task, then there's no sustainability and there's no possibility in the long term to step away or delegate and hand over, what has helped you on the journey to being strict with your calendar, saying no, delegating? Cause I know those things can feel so deeply uncomfortable for so many [00:14:00] humans, especially people socialized as women.
I think, look, and yeah, I found that difficult cause I am a perfect perfectionist and, you know, I like to make sure I'm very. Conscious and like to make sure that my clients that everyone gets a good experience. So I want to be involved, you know, as much as I can, but. What's helped me, and I think over the last 12 months in the business, and not just me, but also my business partner, Aideen is, you know, we've got a very strong level of team leaders in management level below us.
So it was actually restructuring the company and getting in a lot of new staff at a higher level. That we could actually give the control and felt confident to give the control. So, you know, we have very good people working in the company that we're able to delegate and be confident that, you know, our clients are getting the experience that they would get from us.
And we did that more from a. Succession planning and sustainability of the [00:15:00] company and it actually has benefited us in our personal lives as well that we have more time and you know, in the summer, like this summer, I went home for a month to Ireland and I didn't do that much. I was available, but I just forwarded emails and delegated everything while I was away and I could spend that time with my family and enjoy it.
So, you know, yeah. I think that has been a fantastic transition for us as a company and for me personally as well. And we just need to continue on that journey that, you know, everything we do, there's someone else that can do everything we do. Um, and it's okay if we want to do it, but knowing that you can step away when we need to step away and get the breaks we need, I think is very important.
Yeah, yeah. You talked a lot about the guilt of feeling torn and how presence is almost the medicine for that. What do you think is different around how women hold and digest that versus working fathers? Because what I hear so much [00:16:00] around Um, uh, the time that men spend at work is they really see that as service to their family.
So they feel like that's part of parenting, right? That's not separate to, whereas I think a lot of women are making themselves wrong for when I'm working, I'm taking away from family. They don't see that as part of the same value. What, um, what do you see and what is that difference for you? Yeah, that's a good question.
I think, look, I think. Women are a lot more emotional than men. And I think women have that human nature, that kind of pull to children, more of a pull. And, and more of a worry about their family and children than men do. Um, and I think, I don't know, like, society probably has a role to play in that as well, that it's an expectation that a man is a provider and goes and works and you know, they, they accept that and they see it as their expectation and that, that is them being a good father, providing for their family.
Whereas, [00:17:00] Society doesn't have the same expectation on women. So I think a lot of it is the society, societal guilt that you have. Um, and then the, I suppose, human nature, that, that pull and that attraction towards your children, your family, more than a man does in general. I think that's a lot of the guilt comes in from that, in my opinion.
So when you think about that societal pressure and you look around you, are you, um, is it accepted? Is it standard? Do your friends both work? So are they, do they have family structures where, you know, both partners are working, both partners are parenting? Is that what you see around you in your community in Dubai?
I Yeah, I suppose I see more of it now than I did in the past. Um, I think You know, in my home country, Ireland or the UK, it's probably more common, um, in Dubai in the Middle East, I think you still have [00:18:00] a lot more men working and women staying at home than you would back it back at home. So it's quite a mix here.
And I do have a lot of friends where. you know, their husbands would, would work and they wouldn't work and they stay at home with their children. Um, so it is a mix, but I, I, like from my friends say that would work women, you know, we all have, we all can experience the same thing, that guilt and that added pressure and worry.
And, you know, we all talk about our husbands don't seem to have that same guilt or worry that we have. Guilt is a word, an emotion that comes up a lot in this conversation, and indeed in a lot of the conversations that I have with women who are both working and parenting. And in fact, we've coined a phrase for that, right?
We may all be familiar with the phrase mom guilt, um, describing that feeling [00:19:00] of, Um, just not feeling good enough. You've forgotten stuff. You haven't showed up enough. You haven't bought the favorite yogurt. You, whatever it is, you're not a good enough parent. And it's interesting to me how we don't have that same phrase.
Um, for men, there doesn't seem to be that same level of emotional chaos around working and parenting at the same time. So I want to dive into a little bit around, you know, what is that guilt that shows up and how do we work with it? Because it seems to be so pervasive. And one thing that I wanted to remind us all is that guilt is an adaptive emotion that is almost a prompt for us internally to say, hang on a second, have I, gone against something that is, that I have decided is good, right?
So have I, um, [00:20:00] violated an expectation? Have I caused harm to others? It's me questioning that and feeling like, Oh, maybe I have. So internally, um, guilt is a little prompt for us to, um, consider the consequence of our action, right? That is, it's kind of psychological root. But guilt is also significantly shaped by what we see around us, right?
What we have learned, um, is quote unquote good and quote unquote bad. So cultures often instill values, expectations, moral standard in the way that we are socialized. So if we grow up believing that. Women should be present for all aspects of their children's upbringing, should always know their preferences, should always be available, should always, you know, whatever the thing is that we, that we're grown up to believe, then obviously, if we're not those things, there is a question inside ourselves of, hang on a [00:21:00] second, I'm not adhering to what I've learned as, you know, a norm or what I've learned to be good mothering.
And so then there's that feeling of guilt. If we grow up believing that, you know, working in the professional sphere is also serving my family, making money is important, I'm allowed to rest, I'm allowed to have leisure activities, I'm allowed to have hobbies, I'm allowed to take care of myself, as well as be a parent, I have lots of support, children benefit from them.
Having, um, interactions with different humans, uh, children benefit from, you know, being taken care of by other people, then maybe I don't get prompted into guilt. So guilt is significantly shaped by what we see around us and what we've been told either explicitly or implicitly by our culture, by our parents, by our schooling, by our upbringing, by our media messaging.
And so when we think [00:22:00] about what has been socialized for boys or fathers, that is significantly different to what's been socialized to women around being mothers. And that's really what we're unpacking in these conversations here is how are we doing that? How are we showing up as professional people that are earning money and that are also parenting?
And can we dismantle some of the stories that we have around needing to be everything everywhere? Right. So what are some concrete tools that you can go away and use when guilt starts rearing its head for you? Number one, you could start noticing, aha, this is a story that my brain is telling me, right? My brain is telling me that I need to be perfect here or that I always need to be baking muffins or that, you know, if I'm not, um, at every PTA meeting that I'm a bad mom.
So. Maybe writing that down or speaking to your therapist or coach around your expectations of yourself [00:23:00] around being a mother, and then looking at all those realistic, would I have those same expectations of myself if I was socialized in a different culture, or if I was brought up as a boy or a man, do I want to take those on, does that feel true for me and starting to really unpack that narrative that you were given.
As a girl, a woman, a mother, and seeing what feels true for yourself and kind of setting your own parameters around what is realistic for you, what is possible for you, what you believe, what you'd want your children to be raised with, and starting that new kind of generational story, which is something that so many of the women here are doing for themselves and for their families are Unpacking that and saying, you know what, no, I don't subscribe to needing to be there every second of the day, or do you know what, this is really important for me, so I'm going to make time for that and that's what I want to model for my children, or I'm choosing to be with a partner who is also showing up and is also cooking and is [00:24:00] also involved in my child because that's what I want to have my child see as they grow up. I want them to see that equality in the home or whatever it is in your particular situation. But just wanted to put that note in here because guilt is such a prevalent emotion when we talk about holding multiple things in a life and more of an.
And more of us are doing that. And so how do we soften the guilt? How do we question and get curious around that and work with it in a different way? Yeah. So it's quite mixed here, actually. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. And when you think about growing up, what did that look like for you in Ireland, you know, a generation ago, did both of your parents work, did both of your partner's parents work?
What was that like? Yeah. So I grew up in rural Ireland, um, in the countryside on a farm. So my parents worked on the farm, but were there, my mother was there, she was working on the farm. So yes, she was a working mother, but a present working mother. But very hard working and I think, you know, she's [00:25:00] been she was a great role model to me and I think that's where I get my drive and work ethic for from is seeing her working hard, but she was.
Always there. So it was quite different. I think that to a mother going out to work and being gone and traveling as well, you know, that travel element. And I, you know, I, I find that quite difficult. The travel element, especially the going away part, um, and the guilt of being away and worrying. About your children when you are away, um, that's difficult.
I think, you know, it was different back, you know, a generation or generations ago when there wasn't as much travel, I suppose, or going out to social events. Well, when I grew up, I knew my mother, yes, was working, but she was always present and popping in and out to the house and seeing us. So it was a little bit different.
Mm. Mm. So it sounds like you grew up with it being quote unquote, normal to do things and do things outside of the house and, you know, have other things that are occupying your mind apart [00:26:00] from, uh, domestic chores or parenting. But what was different is the amount of time where you're almost in the same space together.
Exactly. Yeah, exactly. That's the different dynamic. You know, the. The, you know, my, both my parents were very hardworking and yeah, there was no kind of sitting around or on the couch or relaxing. And it was, you know, Irish family where it was tough love, you get on with it and no kissing, no hugging. It was just, yeah, the emotions didn't come into play.
So yeah, very different, that hard work, that drive. was, was there, but they were still always around. Yeah, which was a different part, I think. Now, and, and that's probably the part I find more, most difficult because, yeah, I wasn't used to as a child is going away, traveling and, you know, being in the office and not at home, able to kind of pop in and see.
Um, my daughter all the time. Hmm. Hmm. Such a great point here around trade offs. Cause I've had, you know, a couple of women that I've spoken [00:27:00] to, um, all that are my clients talk about how challenging it is when you are at home and someone's popping in and out and like the context switching you have to do on the fly all of the time and they're like, I wish I could just go into an office and just work and then come home and just be at home.
So I think either way, you know, there. They're the good things and the bad things that we deal with. Exactly. The pros and cons and, and to be honest, you know, I could work from home more if I wanted to, but I choose not to. I go into the office, I'm only a 10 minute drive to the office and the reason is because I get too distracted at home and yeah.
That, you know, hearing my daughter cry downstairs, even though I have a study, you know, a door is closed, her coming, knowing I'm there, coming to me, I find that very distracting. So. Even though I find it hard being away to be productive in my work, I have to be and have that different environment. And yeah, working from home, I find I find very difficult, to be honest.
So when you think about kind of domestic [00:28:00] chores, managing a house, it sounds like there's help for that. But how does that planned? and organized and kind of managed in a way. Yeah, and that, you know, it's funny, when I was at home in Ireland this summer, a few people said, God, you're so lucky, you know, you have a live in nanny, someone that does, oh, she's so lucky in Dubai, someone doing everything for her.
But that comes with its own challenges because, you know, obviously, they're, you know, my helper's from a different cultural background. You know, them understanding how you want to raise your children. Like, nobody can raise your child the way you would raise your child. And, you know, even portraying things that you want done, that is difficult too, you know, and giving, knowing that somebody is with your child more than you will be with them is, is very difficult to process as well and making sure that they follow your values because, you know, especially at a younger age, it's that from [00:29:00] zero to three or zero to three, six is the most important age in a child.
that will mold them for the future. So, you know, managing that person, how you want them to raise your child, because essentially they're raising your child, you know, they're with your child more than you'll be with them is difficult. And that's, you know, there's some cultural differences and sometimes they mightn't be as supportive as you and some things you want done.
So that is challenging too, you know, so it's not. It's not as, I suppose, as easy as everyone thinks it is. Oh, great. You have someone there to do everything and look after your child, but you have to manage that person and make sure they're managing your child and looking after the child the way you want them to be looked after.
And, you know, having that balance with loving them, giving them the love, but also having the discipline as well. So you don't want someone to be overloving to your child and they're spoiled. You don't want someone to have too much discipline on your child as well. So it's getting the balance and it's difficult for the [00:30:00] carer as well, because they need to understand and try and deliver what you want.
But culturally, they might be from a different background that will give difference. So it can be challenging from both sides. And how have you handled that? So you think about, you know, cultural beliefs or religious beliefs or, you know, what's good and what's bad or what discipline is, um, coming through, through someone's expression, right?
Just from what they've learned. And then you've got your way of, I'd like it to be like this. Are those explicit conversations? Do you and your partner have that? Is there training? Like, how does that work? Yeah. Look, me and my partner have those conversations and I've had those conversations with my nanny.
But what I've learned as well is, look, like, I'm not a perfect mother. You know, my husband is not a perfect father. We make mistakes. We're learning. So I think it is like you have to ignore some things and as well as pick your battles. So I think not being too hard on your carer as well. You know, [00:31:00] children and toddlers are difficult and you know, they, especially the terrible twos or terrible threes.
So no one is perfect. And I think it's just, you know, keeping an eye on it and monitoring those, watching out for those key things. And especially now my daughter has just turned three, you know, the discipline is important and, you know, respect. And for me, what's very important is, you know, especially. in living in Dubai and my daughter growing up in Dubai.
I don't want her to be one of those expat brats. So I'm very conscious on her being very respectful to my nanny, her picking up things herself, you know, please manners, please. And thank you. So. What I did struggle with my nanny for a while with was making sure that she did say please and thank you. My nanny ignored that, you know, and just let her give her something if she wanted it.
And that was a difficult period trying to instill that. This is the key time where my daughter needs to learn discipline, have respect, have manners. You know, there's [00:32:00] no point in my husband and I doing that when. for eight hours of the day, someone else isn't doing it that's which are most of the time. So we had some difficult conversations around that, but that was a very important thing to me.
And, you know, I grew up with manners and respect and it's very much what I want to instill in my daughter. So, um, yeah, that was difficult conversation. There's other things I just let go over my head, to be honest, because it's, it's. Life, you know, nobody is perfect and my idea of perfect isn't perfect to another person.
So I think you have to just get the balance with that. And it sounds like also intentional here about what are the priorities? What's something that I really want to insist on and feel like is really important and what things can I let go or they feel like they're not as important. I don't need to spend as much time on them.
Yeah. And I think that in work life and your relationships, it's that's life. It's about compromise and it's about picking your battles basically, and what you want to focus on and having the energy to [00:33:00] focus on. We don't have the energy to focus on everything. So it's those key things. And I think those key principles of life that you focus on and let the rest just, you know, go over your head and just having, trying to get a balance.
And focusing on the key things. And again, it's, I suppose, prioritizing, like everything, going back to prioritizing too. And look, not beating yourself up or being too hard on yourself either. So you talked about, we don't have the energy to do everything. Um, and we also don't have like the time in the day.
Um, how do you do time? So when you think about your structure of where are you, when do you have a typical structure in a day or structure in a week? I'm at work at 7. 30 or I go to the gym at this time or does that work for you or is every day different? Yeah, I try to have a structure to my day and, you know, three days a week, my daughter goes to nursery, I have to drop her off at 8am and then I head straight to the office.
So [00:34:00] that's good to put a structure on those days. But then, you know, I do a lot of meetings and external outside of the office. So it tends to vary. I do try to get to the gym. three days a week at 4. 30 PM and then get home for dinner and bath time, bedtime at my daughter. So what's important to me is that at least four out of the five days of the week I get home for dinner time and bath time at my bedtime at my daughter.
So that's important. Um, and then, you know, most evenings I log on again when she's gone to sleep and do an hour or two's work then. I think it's, it's just getting the balance of knowing the important times of the day where I want to keep for me for the gym or time at my daughter and then working everything else around that.
Um, I've also tried, you know, two days a week to not have any external meetings. Uh, one of those days, not even have internal meetings that I have headspace to think about new projects, strategy, and also catch up on what I've done and that I'm not. in a, like a hamster in a wheel all the time [00:35:00] running around.
So I think, yeah, giving yourself. time to think and free time is very important as well. So undervalued in this time of constant distraction and constant things to do. So it sounds like you've really created anchor points and almost created what I call like a minimum, you know, minimum standard of care of if I, if I hit this, it's I'm doing okay.
Right. If I'm accepting that four out of seven, like that's okay. That's what I'm aiming for. And that Can I just cherish that time and really be in that time and be intentional around that? Pausing here to talk about a minimum expectation of yourself. Um, and I'm smiling as I say that because it's so, um, counter the way we often think for the overachieving, you know, high achieving.
Perfectionist style clients that I usually work with. So often the women that I work with one on one are always thinking [00:36:00] more, right? What should I be doing more of? Where can I be improving? What can I be making progress in? Um, this is the things that I haven't done. These are the ways that I'm not showing up enough and always looking to.
Better, better, better. And that can be a beautiful thing, not taking that away, but it can be really, really helpful to think about, well, what's the minimum I can do here and for it to be good enough, right? We've had that phrase, good enough parenting, good enough mothering. So what would good enough mothering or good, good enough working look like for me right now?
Is it that I'm home You know, three nights a week for bedtime and bath time. Is it that I am present all weekend? Is it that I am, you know, making dinner twice a week? What is my minimum here where I can say that's okay, that's good enough and it can be so helpful to get explicit around those for you. I'm sure you already know like all the ways you could be doing better, but flip that around and have a look at Well, what's good enough for me?
What would I think [00:37:00] of as acceptable for somebody else? What could I see as acceptable parenting or acceptable, um, CEOing for myself? What would that look like as a minimum? And I'd invite you to get clear on those and maybe even write them down and. See, how are you able to meet those? Are they realistic?
Are you able to meet them and maybe celebrate every time that you do and start shifting that narrative in your brain to, Hey, I'm okay. I'm showing up enough, you know, enough times in the week for me to have that connection or for me to be doing those things rather than looking at all the ways that you're failing, which I know that you're really, really good at.
And it's accepting to more that, you know, before I had my daughter, like work was always first and I could do calls up to nine o'clock at night. And it's accepting now that, you know, I'm not in that situation. Now I'm in different parts of my life where I have a young family and. I have to prioritize, I have to shift things, and you know, the time I have in work, that is the [00:38:00] time, it's, and it's, you know, it's probably 50 percent of the time I had before I had my, had my daughter, um, because I probably spent 80 percent of my life working, so, it's realizing that this is a different period in my life, and that you have to have, get that balance in time and how important it is to have that balance.
It's also been interesting to speak to women that are on the other side of that, where their children are grown up and they're, you know, they're back in the, I can do whatever I want. You know, I can work X amount of time in the day. And also just thinking of that, I think you called it like a phase. Like I'm in this part of my life now, and this is what feels true for now.
And this is what feels important for now. And that may shift and change as dynamics shift and change or children get older. Yeah, definitely. And look, that, that having free time again, when you say that, that sounds like a long way off, especially when I have another baby coming in January. But you know, I have accepted that it will come back, you know, it, it, it'll be another, a good few [00:39:00] years before it does, but it will come back.
I just have to make the most of the time now and just keep working on that balance. And, you know, even, I just said to you that, you know, say two days of the week, I, I won't have external meetings, one only internal meetings. You know, I, I'm even finding that hard. And even just this morning, I had a meeting with my EA and said next year.
You are to say no to me, you know, I'm my own worst enemy. I still try to put meetings in those two days. I'm like, you need to manage me and say no to meetings on those days. So, you know, even though I'm conscious and putting the structure in place, sometimes I don't follow it and I'm my own worst enemy for that.
So, you know, I need people to support me to try and help me manage that, that I stick to it and then I can get that balance. That accountability can be so useful of almost having other people be, be your watchdogs. Definitely. Definitely. Yeah. And yeah, with everything with training, having a personal [00:40:00] trainer, that accountability and, you know, I see someone every two weeks.
So as I said, mindfulness and stress management, you know, it's, it's having conversations with her and it's, again, that's another kind of, you know, accountability stone for me also to keep me on track. I think it's very important. Because I think the busier, busier you are, the more support you need with people helping you to put those barriers in place and you to be accountable to them so that you can get that balance.
Marie talks here about giving herself some space and time and support for her mental health, her emotional well being. And I wanted to pause here because I think this is quite revolutionary. What I see In my experience in the world and in working with burnout prevention, working with women in general is that often they only allow themselves that time and space for their brain and their emotions [00:41:00] after there's been a crack.
So after there's been some kind of a diagnosis, or maybe there's been an actual breakdown, maybe there's physical signs that you're not coping, you're not able to sleep. Maybe you are on anti anxiety medication. And sometimes at that point, people will give the themselves permission to, you know, see a burnout coach like me or get some therapy or whatever else.
And I love this proactive approach of creating time and space to be digesting what's going on in her brain, to be practicing mindfulness, practicing calm, practicing nervous system regulation so that she's able to show up with more focus, more patients, more creativity, both in her professional and her personal life.
Now, not all of us are able to access, um, a coach or a therapist or a mindfulness practitioner, right? We may be able to afford that in terms of time and space, and we may not be able to. And so I just [00:42:00] want to remind you that there are also. Mindfulness apps out there. I know headspace is one that sometimes people use.
I'll link a little mindfulness practice, um, a somatic body based meditation practice down in the comments below. Um, there are other YouTube recordings. So. You know, it's beautiful to be able to go in and access another human to digest, refocus, reflect, um, think about things that are coming up for you and practice mindfulness.
And if you're not able to do that, there are also other ways of being access, being able to access these resources or resource or access as a time for yourself to, uh, to take a breath, to come down, to. the present moment and then to make your next steps from that place versus your frenzied, hurried, what's the next thing to do?
I'm behind kind of mental time and space. So really [00:43:00] appreciate Marie sharing her permission that she gives herself for this and the effect that she sees in her day to day life and a real invitation for all of you to create some kind of a practice or space for yourselves to do the same thing for your busy brain and your Turbulent emotional state as you're handling everything that's on your plate.
So you've talked about having time for your mind in a way and your presence, um, every two weeks. You've talked about going to the gym a couple of times a week. What else do you do to keep yourself healthy and well and, um, regulated enough to hold everything that you're holding? Well, I could probably spend more time on myself.
Um, I get out in the morning for a walk with my daughter and my dog. I try to every morning at 6. 30 for a half an hour, um, before we get ready to leave the house. So that fresh air and I meet some people, some friends or neighbors as well. So I think for me, it's [00:44:00] meeting people. And at the weekend, I have some neighbors around for a coffee after a walk in the morning.
Having that kind of social mix in my life is very important because I am a very social person. Um, look, I think I could probably put a little bit more me time of switching off and having time for myself and the equation, which I plan to try and have a little bit more of next year. But besides that gym time, which that gym time is very important to me because it's My, from, from me in my life, you know, I used to do a lot of sports, Ironman, different kind of high intensity, uh, sports.
That's like my switch off. That's my relaxation time. And that's where I get a head space from everything. So that's very, that's number one for me. having that time. Um, and then getting out here to having my walk in the morning as well as is another thing. You know, I try to one or two nights a week, sit down after my daughter goes to bed, watch a movie or some TV with my husband and having that time.
As my husband says, [00:45:00] he comes last in the pecking order of everything, which is very true and something I probably need to spend more time with my husband. But yeah, since my daughter came into my life and obviously another one, the way he is very much at the bottom, bottom of the pecking order. Um, which is difficult and I, I, I am prioritizing work and my daughter and he knows that and he's, he's very respectful and understands that, but it's something I probably need to work on more and spend more time with him as well, but getting the balance for.
Family, work, yourself, your husband isn't easy and I'll be very honest in saying it's not easy and it's something that I'm continually working on and want to try and get a better balance and I think it's just a journey where you just have to work at it all the time. Would you say that his pecking order is a different one?
Uh, yes. Yeah, definitely. His pecking order would be family over work, um, for sure. Interesting then to live [00:46:00] life alongside a human who has different values, right? It can bring interesting conversations and great compliments, but also conflict in the day to day when we're making different choices to what somebody else would do.
Yeah, and we're very different. We're like chalk and cheese, you know, from our upbringing to, you know, our, our values and emotional sides and everything. So, um, yeah, and that's, that's, that's difficult, but it's good in other ways too, because it kind of brings the balance when you are different. Mm. Brings a different way of doing things.
Like, Oh, my way isn't the only way. Exactly. Um, question about money. Um, so it sounds like you've always worked and you've had a relationship where you've always both been earning. And how do you do finances together? Does that go into one pot? Do you have separate finances? Do you save together, invest together, spend together?
What does that look like? Yeah, it goes all into one pot and I'm basically the finance director at home. [00:47:00] So, um, yeah, I'm in control of all the finances, but it's, it's one pot. It's everything together from an investment perspective, from a spending perspective. Um, yeah, everything it's, it's one unit. And does that work well for you as a couple?
Yeah, I think it does work well. And, you know, from when we got together, my husband, You know, realize that I was a much better financial person, was happy for me to take control of that and for me to manage everything and we had everything together. Um, so yeah, so far it, it has, um, and hopefully we'll continue to.
Absolutely. It's been interesting to think about, you know, different ways that people do this and what works well and what feels easy and what feels difficult and who's got skills and who doesn't and who wants to spend more and who wants to spend less can be such a hot topic for so many. We have doors back.
There's two of, yeah, spending one might spend more. Yeah, but I think that's just natural, but not, it's not a huge thing. You know, I think we're quite similar in our [00:48:00] approach to spending and what we like, similar things we like. So, um, yeah, I think we're, we're pretty much aligned in all of that. Hmm. This sounds like there's a basis of trust there as well around, um, spending money for each other.
Yeah. So when you think about where you are and everything you've built and created, what are you the most proud of in yourself? Would you say? Oh, I think, look, definitely when, when you have a child and start a family, you know, obviously my daughter is what I'm most proud of. I know it's, it's only been three years, but.
That, you know, love and bond you have, no matter what you do in work or outside of that, it's never going to compare to that. But, you know, that aside, I am extremely, you know, happy with what Aideen and I have done with the business. We did a management buyout two years ago, took it over. I'm 13 years in the business.
I worked like I owned the business before I bought the business. And [00:49:00] I think that mixture of hard work and a bit of Irish look thrown in, um, I am very proud of, you know, you know, EER is my baby as well. It's something that's been part of my life for 13 years. I love the industry. I love what I do. And I am very proud of that.
And I think, you know, I'll find it very hard to give that away when the day comes. Um, so I think, yeah, obviously, you know, my daughter, work, um, and yeah, just very happy that I fell into the industry, which I did 13 years ago. I love the industry. Um, okay. I have moments when I find it stressful and I think we all do in this industry and in the corporate life, but overall I love what I do and, you know, even though I feel guilty about not being with my daughter and at home all the time.
I couldn't be a stay at home mother. That's not me. You know, I, I, I thrive off work and the whole business development and client relationship side of work and winning those deals and growing the business and coming up with new ideas. That's [00:50:00] what I thrive. That's what gives me that buzz in life. So I think it's very important that I have that.
To be a better mother as well. And it sounds like there's so much pride there in the consistency, right? The consistent showing up and hard work over time to create something that feels so true and feels so exciting and feels so innovative and feels like it's growing. And to have that feeling of, you know, I love working and I love being in the business and I love seeing it grow.
And I love being part of all of that in addition to my beautiful family and daughter. Yeah, definitely. You know, and it's, yeah, I love everyone that knows me. They know that I couldn't give up work or that, yeah, a stay at home mother would just not be for me. So it's getting the balance between the two.
But yeah, I think, look, when you have something you really enjoy doing and, uh, Especially owning now the last two years, we own the business. It just gives you that [00:51:00] extra motivation. And we're very lucky. We're in a growth market. We, we, we set up in Saudi earlier this year, you know, Saudi Arabia is exploding at the moment and it's just very exciting to be part of all that.
And yeah, it definitely gives me a kick and a buzz to see that growth and the potential.
I'm feeling the kick and the buzz right in me as you talk. Thank you so much for your time, Marie. Thank you, Maud. This was very enjoyable. Thank you. And for the opportunity. Oh, I love having these conversations so, so much. Thank you for being here, for listening to the work family, me podcast. If you want to connect with me in real life, I would love that.
You can find me on LinkedIn and I will. Put the link for my profile below. So you can just click on that and connect with me. See you out there.
Marie is a great example of permission for support, permission to ENJOY work and of prioritising quality vs. quantity when it comes to how you spend your time.
Click here for an episode all about guilt with some more support for you A conversation about guilt.
Guided audio practice for slowing down in a busy life - Guided Audio_Moments of softness_12 min