Co-Parenting and Co-Working in a Busy Household
In this episode of Work Family Me, I sit down with Anita Nesbit, a skilled content strategist and natural connector. Based in Cape Town, Anita balances her dynamic career with family life alongside her husband and two children. She works to create impactful content that drives brand engagement and growth, liaises with clients and teams, does the school drop and finds moments to walk on the beach and breathe. How does she balance it all?
We discuss:
- what helps in a house with 2 entrepreneurs and 2 children in different stages
- the part of boundaries around things that are good for us that often trips us up
- the medicine for overwhelm and busy brains
Prefer to listen to the podcast? Click here: Co-Parenting and Co-Working in Cape Town
I'm in conversation with Anita, who is a connector and content strategist in South Africa, married for 20 years, has got two boys, one quite young and one 14, so a bigger age difference. Working from home, working with team, partners, growing a business. We sit down to talk about organization, creating time and protecting it and the trade offs of working from home. Money, handing things over, having support and breathing through it all. I think you're going to get so much value from this conversation.
Thank you so much for taking time to be here in a busy day, in a busy life, in a December. So all of that is ramped up by a thousand. Could you introduce yourself, where you are, what your job is, what your family situation is?
My name's Anita. I'm a marketing consultant and I work from home. At the moment I have one client who is full time, probably more than full time. I have two boys. One is 14 and in high school. The other is about to turn six and about to enter primary school and I live with my husband. He also works from home and he does his own business as well, IT programming, et cetera, et cetera.
So two full time working humans, 100 percent plus, two children on kind of quite different levels of parenting. Talk us through how you do a regular week with holding all of those things.
As the boys have got older the needs, have become quite different and Sam being in high school is now quite involved in extra murals and sports, and he's also at a school, which is a bit of a distance away from where we live. We're in Kommetjie.
It's meant we've had to become really organized and what that looks like is usually at the beginning of the term. Once we get the information from school like sport times and we know what both children are doing. Then we map out a monthly calendar where we fill in, in different colors, what sports, what's academic, what's social. In other words, if there's a birthday party or some kind of family thing we need to go to. Everything's on a calendar, a monthly overview, and we try and do it for the term. So that is three months in South African timeframes.
Then we also have a daily Monday to Friday calendar that's set out and broken down from seven in the morning until evening, where we then divide up everything from who's taking to school, who's fetching from school, which child, who does school lunches. We've got a wonderful nanny so who does her drop off who then does dinner, who walks dogs. We've had to become a little bit into the minutiae and the detail.
Because otherwise what tends to happen is you can get very caught up in your work day, your afternoon and if one of you is more under pressure than the other, then it's very tempting to just keep palming it off.
So it sounds like you're at a point now with this organization and this color coding, which I'm loving hearing about and the division of labor and the sitting down and the planning that feels quite structured and feels like it's a matter of habit, what got you to the place where this is now normal for you?
It’s definitely been a process and there's definitely been a lot of conflict along the way. And if I think back, it probably was out of the chaos of COVID where things were out of control in terms of trying to manage work and kids. Both of us working from home, both of us exceptionally busy and kids at an age of crazy different needs. Ethan was two. Samuel was ten. Samuel was supposed to be doing school. Ethan couldn't understand why no one was available for him.
Out of that, we both were still very busy, both trying to work from home and the struggle for me came in that Ethan was very attached to me. It took a lot of trying to work out how do I manage to not damage him or ruin our relationship. Give him the love and attention he needs, but not feel as though I'm at the end of the day, completely stretched, burnt out, haven't got my work done. Back at my desk at seven o'clock once he's asleep to carry on working for two, three hours.
Then waking up early in the morning trying to get work done before he wakes up. That's not sustainable. There was a lot of muddling through. I also got to the point where I went and then found a co-work office space, a hot desk space, and then tried to do a couple of days there where he wouldn't disturb me.
As he's got older, it's become a little bit easier because he could stay at school slightly longer, start doing extra murals, start doing aftercare. In the beginning though, it's just so exceptionally rough.
I do think that dads on whole have it a little bit easier in the sense that, perhaps they’re interrupted a little bit less. The expectation is a little bit less on them to do that nurturing.
When I've been at my most stressed, my most exhausted, my most end of my tether, some of the conflict that we'll have will be me around trying to say to Pete, my husband, You know, why can't it be different? Why can't you make it different? Or I can get particularly controlling about stuff and I'll start saying ‘it's got to be like this’. Cause it isn't working for me. Then it's less collaborative and it starts feeling a little bit dictatorial, which also doesn't work. So there's been a lot of muddling and I've probably listened to a lot of podcasts. We've had some conversations as well.
It sounds like when you think back to the times where it was really hard. You looked at, how can I protect time? How can I protect time for each of my children? How can I separate time for work? Do I need to create a different space? How do I manage to have conversations when I'm not at the end of my tether? So that we're working as a team to look at what can be different versus I'm losing it and now it's an attack and defense situation.
Exactly. With work and what I've also realized is that it will ebb and flow. So there are times or months where you're exceptionally busy, there's a lot of pressure and it tends to then ease off potentially. So in that time when it's eased off, that's really an opportunity where I try and then make extra time with the kids, make extra time for myself, make extra time with my partner as a kind of recalibration. So instead of feeling anxious about it being a downtime, I've kind of got to a point where I can embrace it and just enjoy it. That also comes from being an entrepreneur, working for yourself.
I was about to almost call that out because it sounds like both of you run your own businesses. And I know that with that, there can be that in the quiet time, there can be the underlying pressure of where's the next paycheque coming from, or where's the next client coming from. So it sounds like over time, as you've lived through the up and down, there's a trust around business that then allows more softness and spaciousness in the in between times where you can really lean into family and health and all of those things.
There's also been a situation where at some point in our marriage, I haven't earned and I've been on more of a kind of sabbatical and there's been lots of other family stuff going on. And then, Pete has been the primary breadwinner. Then there've also been times, a situation where we now are where I'm more of a primary breadwinner and Pete is in a situation where he's trying to expand his business, finesse things, find more clients, et cetera. It's an interesting dynamic and something that you have to go with.
So in that flow of seasons of more, seasons of less, seasons of providing, seasons of maybe more caretaking, when you come back to your Excel spreadsheet of who's doing what when. Is that part of it, of the person that's earning less money does more in the house or is it hours at work? Cause I know this can be such a sticky topic when we think about division of labor, division of finances, division of energy, division of focus. What feels fair?
It is a tricky scenario and it does depend on your partner. If your partner has the traditional upbringing or it doesn't necessarily subscribe into that patriarchal paradigm that we actually do exist in, it can even just be a subconscious thing. So I often have to call out and say, I need to work late. This is what we've set up for the day. I need you to help X, Y, Z. It's also ended up where I am doing more just for myself in terms of nurturing. So in the evenings I do meditation or I do yoga or in the early morning I'm doing a swim or a walk. That's kind of new as well. It is a little bit related to the kids being older. It's a little bit easier.
It is a tricky, it is a tricky dynamic. And I think one that we have to be conscious of because of, on the one hand, while I might be earning more in order for Pete to be able to grow the business and find new clients, he actually has to work just as hard, if not harder.
So there is a mutual respect and space and understanding and trust that you have to give one another. Because the other thing I think that doesn't work is if it becomes too tit for tat. I think we've been quite explicit in our written out day and how the day works.
To be as fair as possible, but it's important. We both try and be conscious about not making it too much tit for tat. I did this, therefore you have to do that. Otherwise it just becomes unpleasant. One of the amazing things about living where we do live is that we do have a house and it is a big house and there's a garden and there's a pool.
There are going to be things that I don't do and don't really want to do like the pool and the garden and the compost heap and stuff like that. So at the same time where I might be doing children's clothes and buying new shoes because someone's outgrowing them or be a little bit more conscious of that. I know that the reason the compost heap works and the pool works is because Peter is sorting that out.
It sounds like there's a underlying foundation of trust. Everyone's doing the best they can. And on top of that, there's a really clear structure of, these are the things that we know about that need to get done, and how do we divvy them up in a way that feels fair in a week, in a day, in a term.
So in that, it also sounds like there are pockets of time for you to be well, for you to take care of your health, for you to have space for your mind to wander and to regenerate. How do you protect that time? Because I know that can be so edgy for so many working mothers.
It's definitely, as the kids have got older, it's become easier. You have to fight for that time. When you have that time, you have to guard it and not then start thinking about the kids or feel guilty or get distracted with what's going to happen when I get home.
There's also a conscious letting go. What I've also worked on is not trying to step in and solve or organize things. You have this tendency as a mother just to want to make sure that everything's going to run smoothly if you're not there. Dinner's in the oven, lunch is in the fridge, all of that.
To actually walk away, let your standards drop and let go of your type A controlling tendencies and know that they will be fine. If they eat a peanut butter sandwich, it's not the end of the world.
So you can consciously create that time for yourself, for me, it's been a case of: but I can't then get all stressed and controlling about it at the same time.
It's a letting go. If I'm going to have space I have to let go of expectations around what happens if I'm not there.
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I wanted to take a pause and have a little solo conversation with you at this point, because there are a couple of things that I think it's really useful to surface and take a breath here.
Number one, Anita has shared with us her and her partner's method of making all of the invisible thinking, taking, fetching, doing, deciding, planning, and organizing visible.
They've done this in the way of a structure, a project plan, they've had conversations, not necessarily always easy ones, about how this is going to work. And so they're holding the structure and organization and potentially an Excel spreadsheet or two, together with the flexibility of we can flow in and out of if somebody's got more on and somebody's got less on maybe shifting those things around.
Sometimes we can veer far into organization and struggle to come back to, maybe things need to shift. And sometimes we're all about reactivity. Just noticing how the both can be here through regular check ins and conversations about what needs to happen. I love the fact that she was really honest to us about.
This wasn't necessarily an easy path. Sometimes when we see other families or other couples do things differently, we're like, ‘Oh, well, they are just …….. insert the adjective that you use to describe them in your mind. But she's shared here that this talk, iterations of discussions and sometimes conflict around how are we going to work as two, People who are growing businesses, who are working in a house with children of different age groups.
It wasn't necessarily an easy journey. So just a reminder for all of us, if we're in that, in the creating of that. It’s not necessarily a smooth and easy journey and it may contain some challenging conversations, some moments of walking away, some taking a breath, some trying different things to get to something that works for everybody.
The last piece that I wanted to pull out is around creating time and then protecting it. This is a topic that can be so challenging. I talk about this all the time with my one on one clients and in my leadership group around boundaries, not just in the setting of boundaries or the creating of boundaries, but then in holding them, in protecting the time or the decision or the thing we want or need, when maybe there is a little bit of conflict or there's a little bit of disruption or somebody needs us or somebody is making a request of that.
We often think about boundaries as we set them, and then it's easy, and people just know what we want, or we never have to say that thing again. In real life, there may be different demands being made of us, or people may forget that, or things come up. And we have those decisions to make of, am I going to say, no, this is really important, I need this space.
Or are we going to say, it's fine, I'll take care of that. Give it to me and set ourselves up for that. Maybe over functioning or that feeling of then maybe being a bit resentful. Can we do that with an open heart or not at that particular moment in time? So often when we are beginning to practice boundaries in maybe a busy home work life situation, it can be really helpful for the parent that is maybe more involved in the day to day to actually remove themselves from that.
So to go out of the house, to leave to go to a yoga class or to go for a walk, or just to go and sit in the car somewhere and take a couple of breaths and have a coffee and listen to some music. Sometimes when we're in the environment of challenge, it can feel even more difficult to protect that.
I just wanted to add that creating time is one thing. Protecting it is another skillset and something that can often feel so challenging. Almost seeing that as a skill to learn and practice. Can be a different perspective on it.
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This is such a huge topic. When you think about what you love about how you've got to the place where you're doing work and family with your partner, what jumps out at you?
There've been moments when working from home has been terrible and a real struggle, but at the same time, and I think I will probably only know this in retrospect down the line when the kids are older and maybe left the house. It is those moments of, you are with them more, you see them more, you connect to them more. I think for Samuel, because he's older now, what I'm hoping that he witnesses by seeing us, so closely in his desk for doing homework is in our office.
I'm trying to create this culture of as a family, we work, we work hard as a family. We strive for excellence. We don't shy away from hard work. We're not scared of hard work. We put in this, we make the sacrifices. So, culturally, I hope that that it is seeping through to him. Granted, he's still 14 and definitely will try and avoid putting in too much effort.
At least he's witness to how we work in our lives. Although proximity to each other can be frustrating and you can irritate each other a lot, I think it does give the chance for a lot of connection.
It sounds like being able to be in the day to day and the checking in and the mood and the energy, brings feeling of maybe being responsible or tapping in and out or, struggling to find the work focus, but it also means that there's that connection through family time and it also sounds like you're so conscious that that's not gonna be forever, you know, when you talk about him.
Yeah. you know, there'll be a time where he leaves home, or there'll be a time where he carries this family culture forward. It sounds like you're also so cognizant that It will shift and change. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I think because we've got such a big age gap I can, I can feel how quickly the time has gone from when Sam was Ethan's age to where he is now.
And he's just finished grade eight and that was a blur. So I can only imagine how the next years are going to go. So yeah, I think when you realize that your kids are with you actually for quite a short amount of time, there's that. Kind of graphic. I think that shows how many holidays you actually have together before stop
So yeah in a way as well, I'm like gee I need to make sure that When I do hit that phase, I'm used to actually having that space for myself because I think it can be very scary if you're completely living through your kids and you can lose yourself very easily and what's going on for them. To then suddenly have to like find yourself again.
Yeah, I say that now, who knows? I'm sure I'll be in a thousand pieces. We're always in a thousand pieces in some iteration. When you think about a challenge in being kind of a full time working human and really a full time parenting human, what are your biggest challenges would you say in that? Yeah, I think, I think it's.
It's about, it's a conscious thing to trust in the future and the unfolding of the work future, because working for yourself, having a client this year, for instance, hasn't been a great year. So, you know, coming out of that and rather trying to see it as, okay, it's not a great year in the sense that it means I could potentially be less busy.
I'm going to try and not fall into a panic to try and find more work and fill the gap and make myself even more busy again. I'm going to create a little bit of space for myself. So there's a lot of conscious trust which I have to draw on and, and that's a big challenge. And also Pete, my partner, approaches that unknown.
space so entirely differently, so he's so comfortable and relaxed in this like discovering, waiting to see what's going to happen. You know, and so he can sit there and he's happy to be in that space where I tend to be like, okay, I want to know what, what's next, you know, where can I like solve this, find this action, action, action.
So, That's a big challenge. And then yeah, financially as well is that thing of, Oh gosh, what if you know, my years slowed down, his year hasn't taken off. Will we have enough? Will there be enough? Is there ever enough? So it's that whole, you can get on a hamster wheel and go, Oh my gosh, have we got enough for our retirement?
Have we got enough? For the kids, tertiary education. Yeah, those are, those are quite challenging spaces for me. When you think about drawing on conscious trust, which you've talked about as, you know, I have to really consciously remind myself or come back to a place that feels calm or feels peaceful inside myself.
How do you do that? I've just found Buddhist meditation. So no, I'm serious. So you know, I think that for me has been around learning a kind of meditation technique and listening to, to podcasts that talk through stuff. And yeah, having some mantras that you run through in your head, having some breathing techniques.
I mean, it all sounds so kind of esoteric, but really it definitely has helped. And I feel almost. I wish I'd discovered it sooner in a way of being able to just ground yourself in the day to day, in the present. As opposed to spinning off into this anxiety spiral about the future that you have very little control over ultimately.
So esoteric in one way, but I guess for anyone listening to this conversation, also like thousands of years old, also cognitive in terms of I'm telling myself consciously, I'm telling myself different things. So when we talk about mantras or affirmations. We're talking about breathing. So we're talking about activating our parasympathetic nervous system and like calming myself down, regulating my nervous system.
And we're talking about bringing my focus back into right here and right now. And all of those things are proven by science, right? So yes, they're kind of the woo woo image, but there's also the really real practical. Support that we can draw on when we combine kind of body, mind, and spirit into a conscious effort to be here now.
Anita and I talk here about tools or practices that help us come back to a sense of calm, that help our bodies come back to softness and regulation, that help our nervous systems know it's okay. We're safe. And out of that state of Excessive thinking, worrying, anxiety, adrenaline, and cortisol. Anita talks about using meditation as a powerful anchor for her in her mind and her life that can work really well for some people.
And for some of us, maybe it doesn't feel possible to create the amount of time that we think it requires to meditate, right? Maybe those 20 minutes or whatever we have in our mind around meditation practice. And so I wanted to remind you of a micro. Strategy that you have at your disposal all of the time for regulating your nervous system and coming back to that present and calm.
And that is your breath, your inhale and exhale at any given moment in the day you are breathing. You can breathe. It is free. It is almost instantaneous. And being able to pause and take a few. Big, slow, deep breaths shifts things in our physiology, in our body. Lets our nervous system know that there is a moment of pause, there is safety.
Every time we exhale, long, slow exhales, it lets our body know it's okay, we can downregulate. So sometimes when we have those moments where we are in high stress, high panic, taking a moment to sigh, to yawn, to put your hands on your belly and take big belly breath breaths. That can feel like a practice that is doable within the middle of a day, right?
If you just have a few minutes, can you Close your eyes, find a place, take a few breaths. Maybe not even that, stand up, take a breath, energize, depending on what your body needs in that moment. Breathing is always available and it's free. So where can we harness the power of that long, slow inhale and exhale to come back to calm.
Over and over again with all of the things that you're doing and handling. So an alternative backed by science and research, if you would like it around nervous system regulation, if you're not somebody who has a meditation practice or feels drawn to that, Being able to incorporate times in your day where you are taking a few moments to intentionally take deep breaths can shift your quality of energy and can shift the amount of reasoning and capacity that you have in that moment.
So put a reminder on your phone. Put a post it note on the wall download, you know, breathwork apps, if that's your vibe, it is available to you all the time. Take a few deep breaths right now,
just as you're listening, see if you can drop your shoulders, move them around, taking a few breaths, maybe a stretch and a yawn. There we go. I'll let you get back to the episode. yeah, and even if, I think, the other thing that I'm trying to do is a bit of journaling, which is easier said than done.
But I also have found that that's quite good when There's just a lot going on in my head and just to stream of consciousness, no criticism, just write it all out those worries that don't go away, et cetera, et cetera. So that's another thing that I can, I do draw on every now and then. You talked about financial worry.
You talked about like the real thing that money is in this capitalist framework that we exist in how do you do finances together as two business owners? Are they separate? Are they merged? Who pays for what? So we've been together 21 years of which we've been married. 17. So it's a long time and we didn't do the whole joint bank account.
So it was quite a thing. I remember when we got married, I was 28 and it was that stage of my life where a lot of my friends are also getting married and it's the fact that a little bit of an uncomfortable place because you're all talking around divorce. It's the bizarre thing of going into getting married, but you're talking about divorce at the same time because you are discussing pre nups and, and tenuptial agreements with the cruel.
And Pete, my partner was actually at a, he's older than me. So he was at a way more financially successful stage than I was at. I literally was going in there. I think I had a BW Chico to my name, it was like nothing. Don't score on the Chico. No, exactly. So, you know, yeah. And, and I think, We spoke about the whole joint bank accounts and then, you know, friends were talking about how that becomes the account that you then put money into and you use it to pay, I guess, for groceries and the household expenses.
And I don't know why we just kept it separate, but it just worked better for us. So in a sense, We just kept things separate. And then over the years, as the finances have changed, we've just kind of split down the middle, who pays for what also, because we work for ourselves and our entrepreneurs, it's from a tax point of view.
We've kind of divvied things up. And it's been quite nice in a way as well, just to have my own bank account and not a joint thing. And I remember another friend's mom saying to me as well, you know, when this was all being set up, but make yourself a little nest egg fund somewhere, you know, in case shit does hit the fan.
You know, you're on your own because I think women do, fall short often in these scenarios. If you end up having kids and stay at home and look after them and you're not earning. And you know, your partner, husband keeps earning and then, you know, if it does fall apart, then somehow when you go through that process, you know, divorce makes both parties at the end of the day, but I think women do end up.
Being worse off. So yeah, so I was always a bit conscious about trying to do that. And yeah, now I guess we still have the separate accounts. We still have separate savings, but we jointly own a house. So obviously there's a lot invested in that. So I think, yeah, I've come a long way from my VW Chico day to at least having a half of a house.
But yeah, it sounds like you have kept that separate and you pay different things depending on who's got what and who's earning what and what's coming in. And that is also an ongoing discussion point of. If I'm earning more, I pay more. If I'm earning less, I pay less. And you take on a little bit more of the financial side.
And it sounds like you also save separately and then have some assets together. Yeah, yeah, exactly. When you think about the nitty gritty of like laundry, ironing, making food shopping childcare, it sounds like you have a plan for some of that on your, you know, beautiful color coded sheet. How are you doing?
The things that need to get done all the time, like the dishes. So, you know, I think that for me is a part of being a South African and living in South Africa. So it's an uncomfortable space on the one hand, but obviously it does have a lot of advantages on the other hand. So we have a woman who works for us and has helped raise Ethan.
And in doing that, she obviously also helps with the housework. So we're very privileged to, to have that. And what I have noticed, what's been interesting for me is seeing How many people are coming from overseas to bring their kids up when they're very young in South Africa because there is that extra support.
We don't have grandparents or any family around who can help with babysitting or, you know, childcare in the evenings, et cetera. So we've had to Really rely on another woman as part of our family to, to give us that extra support. So we make sure we obviously pay her really well. And I guess it's, it's just, it's a, it's like having an employee at the end of the day.
So if we consider our family as a little business, You get an employee to support that business and to, to help you survive it. And then in terms of the shopping, we both hate it. So it's this thing that we've made where it happens once a week. We take it in turns and it's been an interesting thing. So it's from the book, fair play.
I think her name is Eve Rodsky. So one of the things she talks about is that task, handing over a task completely and working out what the, the fundamentals are around it, but then what part you need to step away from. So for me, it's, it's your week, you choose the dinners, you check the cupboards, you make sure that everything.
Needed for those meals that week is done on your shop. So yeah, that's taken a few years to get right. And then otherwise I'm also trying, touch words, it sometimes goes well and sometimes does it, to get Samuel, aged 14, and perfectly capable to also participate in the household things. At a bare minimum, trying to keep his room tidy and, you know.
Take laundry to the washing machine, but also cooking a meal, sorting out lunch for himself. He can actually iron. So he discovered that for himself. So yeah, I think it's, it's It's just being aware of, yeah, not taking it on. And then the other thing that I think makes a big difference is luckily we are, we both had the same kind of tolerance for mess or kind of chaos.
And I think it gets trickier if you are a person that really likes a very neat, tidy spick and span house. And your partner doesn't, that can be a really difficult dynamic, but luckily for us, we both have the same, like, expectations around what it looks like and yeah, and he's really good with a dishwasher.
So that helps as well. So again, when we think about the process of getting here, it also sounds like you have hired and support where that makes sense. You, as your children are growing up, there's more that you can delegate out. And then you and your partner have been really conscious about who's doing what and how do we hand over when we are sharing responsibilities.
Is there anything else you pay for in terms of support? I think it can be so liberating for women to hear, like, I don't have to do it all by myself and maybe if I get support here, then I can do more over there or it frees up my focus somewhere else. Anything else that you call in as support around you?
Yeah, so I think we also have a gardener, which is kind of a support for Pete in a sense. And then, you know, the other thing we've done is we've been really lucky to have a neighbor who's an au pair and we've actually gone off and done holidays on our own with her looking after the kids and paying her to do that.
So that I think has been an extraordinary way of just creating space for yourself as a couple, because that's the one thing parents and can do is. Really blur the amount of time that you have to just be, just to remember, you know, Oh, I do like you. Yeah. You're so funny. Yeah. So that's a good thing.
Yeah, and I think sometimes, you know, we toss around this phrase, like it takes a village to raise a child, but we don't have villages anymore. Right? So are we paying for the village? Who are we co opting in? Who are we interviewing? Who are we taking on board and consciously creating as support around us, whether that be in the business or for the domestic front or for bookkeeping or for tax or for looking after children.
It really is so helpful to have people who have skills and abilities in those areas. Yeah, exactly. That you trust.
When you think about the generational pattern that you grew up with for both you and your partner, but did your, did both your parents work? Did your, was your mom at home? Like, what was that like? Yeah. So my parents both worked. My dad, I think was kind of in the same job for a long time and then took early retirement and did his own business.
Yeah. And worked really hard. My mom was a teacher and I think witnessing her and, and kind of her work ethic, I think on the one hand, I think she's, she's helped give us a very good work ethic, but on the one hand, I think she's on the other hand, I think she worked too hard and it became her everything.
So often at the end of the term, she'd be completely exhausted, burnt out. Take five days to recover. So that I think probably sits with me in the sense that I know that I need to make sure that I don't follow that pattern. Yeah, Pete's Pete's parents as well, both worked. I think his mom, his parents divorced.
His dad had a kind of incredible academic career that he sort of forged for himself. And then his mom. Who was exceptionally bright. It sounds as though she kind of ended up being in a more supportive role to both her father and then her subsequent husbands. So interestingly, didn't do kind of what she necessarily could have done, but played the very supportive role.
So there could be also a subconscious dynamic and Pete possibly where his expectation from me is to play a little bit of that. Supportive role. Whereas I'm obviously have done more of a kind of pioneering thing of, of my own business for myself, as opposed to less supportive role for him in a way.
Hmm. And it sounds like you're both ready aware, or, you know, when, when I hear you speak of how, what we carry forward in terms of, What we see as good or the way to work or the way to do X, Y, Z, or the way to be a wife or the way to be supportive. Right. Cause those can also be questioned. And it sounds like you're being really conscious about what do I want to model for my children?
What feels sustainable for my life? What kind of partnership do I want to have? Yeah, yeah, exactly. So in closing, I'd love to ask you, what are you most proud of in all these things that you hold in the time that you make for yourself and the way you calm yourself down in the different parenting that you're engaged with?
Like, what do you, what do you want to love and celebrate in yourself? I think, it's a sense, I think as you get older as well Around just never stop learning and never stop growing and never stop trying to be happy, I guess. So, you know, when things don't feel right and you're in a slump and yeah, you finding the role of mother and wife and all of those things just really get you down.
For me, it's, it's an equal part, I think, into that gratitude of being in the presence, but at the same time going, well what do you need? You know, if there's discomfort and you're not happy, then what is it and what can you change? So I think it's around, yeah, I guess, I think feeling good about the fact that I can, be appreciative, but also be really open to wanting to keep making things better and keep improving things.
And, and. Live the really the best life possible. And I love the way that you're framing that as an experimentation, right? You're like, I am able to shift and change. And what worked for me two years ago may not work for me now. And so it requires me to. Stop and check in and like, what do I need? What does the family need?
What does work need? How can I make it better for me right now? Yeah. And you know, when I reflect back, I think my twenties, my twenties were all around studying, first job, finding my feats, partying, friends. I got married at the end of my twenties. My thirties ended up being around, for us in particular, it was around children and fertility struggles.
And the kind of juggling act between a corporate work environment and transitioning into a more entrepreneurial going on my own, which was terrifying. And then my forties so far have been around a lot of hard work and consolidating and yeah, wealth creation. So if I look at that trajectory, I can just be entirely grateful.
That's okay. Gosh, I got to experience all of this stuff. And then I can feel more excited about. Looking through to the other side of okay, so I wonder what it's going to be like once the kids are older and grown and left. Because you're going to be so much wiser, and hopefully wealthier to then have this whole new phase of your life and like amazing possibilities.
So it's equal parts terrifying, but equal parts exciting. Which feels like life in a nutshell. So so much for sharing your time and space here with us, Anita, it's been lovely having you.
We hope that this honest conversation about what has worked and what has not will help you think about how you can bring more health and intention into your life.