A conversation about partnerships, work and support in Sweden
Johanna Lennartson is a Swedish woman in her early 40s, living in Stockholm with her partner and two daughters (8 and 11). Johanna is a seasoned professional with decades of experience in global mobility.
She currently works full-time as the MD for a successful Swedish immigration and relocation company and balances that with parenting while her partner travels for work, keeping the dishes under control, and walking her chocolate Labrador.
How? Let's ask her.
In this episode, we discuss:
The challenges and benefits of having a partner who works away from home
What’s “normal” in Sweden
Some strategies for saying yes to your children (even when the to do list feels endless)
A very unusual mindset around doing dishes (and one that has a lot of power)
Community and support
Permission (or not) for being messy humans
Delegation and sustainability vs perfection and control (whew this is a biggie, right?)
I hope you enjoy this conversation with Johanna and get some value from the discussions, habits and relationships she shares with us.
Prefer to listen? Find the podcast here: A conversation about partnerships, work and support in Sweden
In the conversation today, I sat down with Johanna, a woman in her forties in Sweden, based in Stockholm. She works full time as the managing director of a team. She has a long term partner and two daughters under the age of 12. And she talks us through the reality and the pros and cons of being in a partnership where one person is working away.
So her partner travels for work. He's not there all of the time. She talks us through some things that are delightful about that. Some things that are really challenging around that. We also talk a little bit about the world of parenting, managing to fit all the things that need to get done in a day and some mindset frames that can be really helpful around that.
We look at support from community versus paying for support. Both of those come up in this conversation. And I think there's so much value in listening to how different women do employment, how different families, different constellations, different mixtures of being here, being away, working, parenting, having time for yourself can work.
So I'm really excited to give you this example of another human doing this and excited for us all to dive in and listen to Johanna. Here we go.
I would love for you to introduce yourself and say who you are, where you are, and what your family and work situation is. My name is Johanna. I'm based in Stockholm, Sweden. I work as a managing director for an immigration and relocation company that's called NIM.MERSION. I live together with my partner.
We've been together for 16 years now, I think. And we have two daughters, they are now 11 and 8. Managing director, two children, kind of tween, teen age, and a marriage. And a dog. Oh yeah, I forgot a dog. Oh, poor puppy. So you have a big job - when you talk about a managing director, I know that you've got multiple people that are in your team. Correct me if I'm wrong.
That is correct. We have about 15 people.
When holding all of these things, Children, school, dog walking, exercising, relationshipping, working. How does that look in a regular week with your job and your family?
Well, my partner is traveling almost every week, so it's mostly me and the kids and a dog and a job. It's been like that, I think, since the youngest one was born. So, well, I work from home most of the time. Most days I work from home and that has really helped me a lot. And I started to do that, I mean, during the pandemic, of course, like everyone else. And then we gave up our office. So I've been working from home mostly since then.
I usually go into town for meetings maybe once every second week. And now when the kids are older, I know they can walk from school themselves in the afternoon and they can take the dog for a walk and they can give themselves a snack and such. So it's much easier than it was a couple of years ago when I had to drop them off and pick them up every day and also go to the office three or four times a week.
So that has definitely made my life much easier. In the morning, we only have to stress for them getting to school on time, and then I can walk the dog and I can make myself breakfast and get dressed and start to work. So that is not as stressful as it used to be, definitely. And then most days they walk themselves back at home.
They know I'm working, they do their homework and they like walk the dog. And the oldest one is really helpful. She's so nice and well behaved and really responsible. And she really wants to help because she knows that I'm alone. And I feel a bit sorry for her sometimes that that's the way she feel like she have to be sometimes.
Yeah, that older daughter caring caretaking role,I'm the oldest one as well, and I think that's why, well, in one way I don't mind all responsibility, but some days, you know, you feel like, why do I take on everything? I mean, other than what I already have to do, but I think that's the oldest responsibility that that's who you are.
There's so much messaging, I think, that we often get as firstborns, speaking as an older daughter myself, firstborn. So when you think about a regular week with your family, it sounds like really it's the three of you for a large part of that. How does that work then with your partner coming in and out? How have you decided to do co parenting and have somebody work away?
Well, I don't think we have decided much. We are just going with the flow, sort of. I mean, in one way, I feel like I relax more when he gets home because I feel like there is another adult that can take some responsibility. But in one way, I also feel like, who are you and what are you doing here messing up our schedule?
You know, why are you making a mess in the kitchen that was clean two hours ago when you were not here? So that is a bit hard sometimes. And I notice also that the kids are acting out with him because they are testing him. It's different routines. When I'm at home alone, they know exactly what to do. They brush their teeth, they make the bed, they do the homework and such.
But when he's at home, I feel like they're more acting out and testing him. Do I really have to brush my teeth today? They're not as used to him being at home. And then I often have to jump in anyway. Even though that he might want to do everything when he's at home. So it is a bit tricky sometimes for having someone come and go.
And sometimes it's just easier when it's us, because then we know that it's only us. We have to manage. We know exactly who's doing what. And then we have to change again when he's coming back. Then it's the four of us. Well, it's a different constellation, so I think it is a bit different for everyone. And it's different for him as well, because he don't really follow all, I mean, the routines that we have that might change during the week that he's been away that we are now.
Go to bed like 8. 15 instead of 8 o'clock or whatever it is, it can be just small things, but it's hard for him to keep up when he's not here all the time.
You say you flowed into that. Is there something that you love about that situation in terms of both working, both parenting, but having these times where you're apart and then coming back together again?
No, but as I said, I don't mind him being away. I think I'm I'm very independent [00:08:00] and that definitely helps, of course, so I think sometimes it's nice to just make all decisions yourself, you know, that I can be like, I can decide what we are going to have for dinner tonight. I can decide if I want to treat them with snacks on a Wednesday night even though it's not a weekend or whatever that can be. I know then it's only up to me. I don't have to feel that he might judge me if I'm doing something like that, because he doesn't know he's not here, right?
So it sounds like there's almost a freedom. In solo parenting in terms of, yes, I have to hold all of the responsibility and sometimes that feels heavy and I'd love for there to be another adult, but sometimes that feels really fun and really light because I get to decide and then I get to deal with the consequences. When you think about your biggest challenges in doing work, life, family like this, what would you say those are?
Find time to just sit down with the kids and just, I mean, enjoy the moment. I guess, you know, cause there is always so much to do and I can handle that and I know what to do with work and cooking and dishes and cleaning and walking the dog.
You're like, I'm an older sister, I've got this, but doing, I can handle. That I can handle, but sit down, that's the tough part, cause I always feel that there is something that I have to do and I always feel guilty when they are coming and, you know, like, You know, mommy, can we watch this movie together or can we just do this?
And I'm just, I just know the whole list that I'm going to have to do before I go to bed. And I just want to have that done, right? Because I was once there asleep, I want an hour for myself before I go to bed, just to enjoy some alone time and do something that I want. But of course, I don't want to miss out at the time that I have with them. So then I feel like, okay, so if I wake up early tomorrow morning, then I just start to make a plan when I could do those things instead of when I thought. I was going to do those things. So I find time to sit down and watch that movie. It's not, not be the whole movie. It might take us three days to watch that movie, but it needs to be get some time together.
But that's probably, you know, the guilt that I feel like maybe that I don't spend enough time with them and that I have to tell them that now I have to work or I have to do the dishes or I have to do the laundry, I have to prioritize other things other than them sometimes.
I wanted to pause here with this theme of feeling a little bit guilty that we can't sit down and snuggle with our children or play Lego or slow down when we have so many other things to do because it's one that comes up so much in my one on one coaching work with women.
And I wanted to raise three points around this for us to think about and take into our real lives.
Number one is. This idea of micro chunking, right? I talk about this a lot in coaching and Johanna actually mentions that here is how can I make the smaller and say yes to it, right? So can I watch a movie over three days and have half an hour on the couch eating popcorn and cuddling together versus putting aside two hours because two hours feels impossible, but maybe half an hour feels doable.
We can do this with so many aspects of change or fitting things in, and here we're talking about spending maybe what we traditionally call quality time with family, with children, with loved ones. Can I put aside some time that feels possible in my busy day and really commit to that? Does that feel easier than having one big chunk of time together?
Number two is when we look at the benefits of time that is present time, that is me looking at you, me seeing you, me listening to you, we can see that that is so beneficial to relationships, even in small chunks of time. So it's much more helpful or warm or connection building to spend 10 minutes or 20 minutes of time when we are not doing anything else, when we're not thinking about anything else, when we are committed to the connection and the relationship than it is to be in the same room for hours and hours and be doing multiple other things.
So, um, The quantity of the time isn't as impactful as the quality of your presence and your focus. So not making yourself wrong for letting that just be five minutes, letting that just be ten minutes. That is so well received, that is so connection building, as opposed to trying to fit being here looking at your things at the same time as, you know, doing a hundred million different other things at the same time.
The third thing that I wanted to bring up as an idea and something that I often talk to my clients about is saying yes to your children and involving them in all of the other decisions. So if someone is saying, you know, come and watch me shoot basketball hoops in the back gardens, like I'd love to do that AND I've also got X, Y, Z and this, you know, the washings out on the line, the dishwasher needs to be unpacked. I've got to send a couple of emails. How can we make it all work? And actually involving them in thinking about the schedule, thinking about how time fits in, thinking about the things that need to get done and making a plan together with you, so that they're also involved with that.
They're also learning how to hold multiple things, how to juggle things. So that's another suggestion that you may want to take and play with in your own family constellation.
So it sounds like almost the challenge is twofold. Number one. When is the fun time? When is the time where we're just hanging out without another thing to do?
And how do I disengage from the long list that I know is there and no one else is doing it and kind of be present in this moment? And the other one, you talked about time for yourself, and I can imagine that being alone and working and managing a house and admin and parenting. Where does that time fit in? You talked about nine o'clock at night. Anything else that you do to kind of care for yourself, your health, your space, your emotional and mental well being?
I would say that that's where the dog habit comes in. Um, we got her a year ago, so, I mean, actually walking her four times a day, it's quite relaxing, you know, cause you get out, we have.
Great nature around us. We have lots of forests. I mean, we walk almost an hour in the morning after we have dropped off the kids. I walk during lunch. I take a short walk in the evening and then one in the afternoon as well. So that's really, I think, the time when I get to reflect and think about things when you're not in the middle of answering emails and calls and it keeps around you and whatever.
So, yeah, that's been quite relaxing and great for me.
That sounds life changing. Did you take four walks a day before you had a dog, or did you need somebody needing it before you gave it to yourself? Yes, yes. I usually take one. During lunch or in the evening with a neighbor or friend or, and, um, but now it's worse.It's quite a lot.
So it sounds like access to nature, moving your body, walking outside and also the companionship it sounds like of a furry delight. So when I hear you talk about domestic work, aka dishes, laundry, all the things that need to get done. It sounds like that's mostly on you. Do you get any support? Do you share that with your partner? How does the nitty gritty of all the extras work?
Yes, that is mostly on me. And I think also that is because I want it to be. I don't want to do everything myself. But Some things I just [00:16:00] want to have done the way I do it. And then I realized that it's not fair of me to expect for him to do it exactly the way I want you to do.
I mean, if, if you're going to give it to someone else, then he's going to do it. He's going to do it his way, right? Some things I do keep as my task, as I want it to be done a certain way. But of course he has his task and he loves to cook and I don't like to cook. I'd rather do the dishes and the laundry and everything else as long as he takes care of the food.
So that's when he is at home, that's really helpful because then he do all the cooking. When we have guests, it's always him spending the whole day in the kitchen making delicious meals. And then I take care of the dishes afterwards and that's totally fine. And then he'd do, you know, when there is a pipe that needs to be cleaned and cleaned, that's always on him.
I'm happy to do the laundry for a year, as long as he cleans one pipe, or if he takes care of the car, whatever that can be. And the things that I, well, it might not take him long, but things that I don't feel like I definitely want, don't want to do that, I'd rather do something else for a much longer time.
Then have to deal with any handiwork or whatever that can be around the house.And tell me, have those been conscious decisions of, I'll take care of this stuff and can you take care of that stuff? Or has that just been the way it's happened over time? Yeah, it's not been the way that it happens over time.
I think in the beginning, I know, I mean, in Sweden, it's, it's a lot of discussions around that it should be equal. Definitely do domestic work and I know friends that have tried different solutions to that. Some that has really a schedule, like I do this is 30 minutes today and you're going to do the dishes for 30 minutes tomorrow.
If you don't do your 30 minutes, then you have to do. Somewhere the next day or whatever that can be. I've always felt though, that I cannot really live in a schedule like that One. It doesn't work for us, but he's not at home. Then he would have to do everything when he comes at home and, and I know when I travel that you know, it's not vacation.You are actually working and I know he is working like 14 or 16 hours a day when he's away. So I know that he's tired when he comes at home as well, so it doesn't feel fair to give him everything when he's back. You're like, so I'm at 23 hours and counting from this week. But it's still, I mean, some things are just, I mean, part of the domestic work is do for yourself.
Well, I do it because, I mean, it's no one that tells me that you have to clean today, right? It's more me that I feel like I wanted to be nice, so I wanted to feel good when I wake up in the morning that I feel like I have a clean home or whatever it is. No one tells me to do the dishes every night, but I still do it because I want to, so it's [00:19:00] not always I feel like it's, it's important, but it's more like I feel like I do it for myself and my kids and our well being.
I think you might be the only individual that I've ever spoken to that has said, doing the dishes is a choice and it's something that I love to do for my well being. Other people are like, I just want to put my food on something.
Yeah. I'll have to do them at some point. But no one exactly tell me that you have to do them today. At this time, it's more, it is my choice when I do them, right? But in the end, if I don't do them for long enough, you're right. I won't have a plate to eat on. There are consequences.
We laugh a little bit around this moment of, you know, choosing to do dishes, but there is something around the mindset of choice that can feel so different to the feeling of, I have to, it's always [00:20:00] me, obligation, which often then comes alongside resentment. And Johanna really taps into the, um, The choice that she has of, you know, when do I do the dishes or when do I do the domestic duties.
I like to do them like this. I like to do them at this point. And so that really gives her a different feeling about doing them. She feels like I'm stepping into this because it's my decision. And that feels really different to an energetic self, right? When we feel like we're coming from a position of power, we're coming from a position of choice around things.
So my invitation to you is to have a look at the things that you feel like need to get done and invite an element of choice into that. Do I have to do this? Could somebody else do it? How could I do it differently? Could I give some of this up? Could I employ somebody? Could I get support in a different way?
Could I put on music? Could I create some element of choice, some element of I choose to around the things that have to get done can be so powerful in shifting your own energy from that kind of victim or martyr or I have to do everything to. I'm choosing to do this now in this way because I like X, Y, Z about it.
Like, what is the thing that I need to get out of this? What is the priority that I'm working to? What is the value that I'm working to? And how can I make this as pleasurable or sustainable for me as possible in the things that I need to do?So it sounds like in a way for the two of you, when you think about the cultural context, you're saying it's very normal within Your friend circle or your community for both partners to be expected to be doing domestic work to the point that it is equal, which is quite different when we think about cultures around the world, and it sounds like you're saying some people do really rigorous time stamping or scheduling where it's tit for tat.
If I do this, you do that. And that sounds like it doesn't work with the way you like to do things, but it wouldn't be unusual to do it. No, definitely not. Men are definitely expected to do the same amount of domestic work as women. And it can even be that women tell other men that they should do more domestic work.
You might be at dinner at a friend's house. And you know, that the wife has been cooking and the, um, you know, made the dinner and then she starts to do the dishes and the other female in the group might say, Hey, you know what? I just noticed that your wife made the dinner and now she's doing the dishes.
You should probably help out sometimes, shouldn't you, right? And he definitely knows that you're right. I should, and that's definitely not unusual that you talk about it quite openly and that women remind other men that they should help out more at home than they might be. I mean, they notice it and it comes, I think it comes more natural for a woman to just.
do things, right? Men often have to be reminded that they should help out or do certain things. I don't think they see it the same way as we do. And is that something that is this generation only? Or would you say amongst your parents and your peers and the environment you were growing up in, that was also normal for both men and women to be doing domestic work?
Well, a bit with our parents, but definitely for this generation that it should be equal. But I think for our parents, it was not unusual if a man helped her. For us, it was a bit different because I grew up on a farm, a horse farm. And I think that's where I got my online responsibility as well. Definitely as the oldest one.
But for them, my dad was then. Working on the farm, in the stable with the horses, taking care of everything outside and my mom was taking care of everything inside. And do you know with your partner, did he have parents that both worked? Yes. It's really interesting because it's coming up as a theme in these interviews that a lot of the women that I'm speaking to both had role models that were both working, right?
And their partners did too. So it's almost their normal. And I'm seeing that as kind of another chain in the evolution downwards, right? When we think about finances, how you do money, talk us through how that works in your relationship. We have a joint account where we pay everything from that comes, you know, with the kids and the house and all the bills and such.
And that has worked really well. That was about five years or so that we opened that account. And before then, we try to. You know, split it equal that we had like a card for the supermarket that we used for buying food. But then I noticed that as I'm mostly with the kids, of course, I paid for everything around the kids.
So I did pay for quite a bit more, I would say. So the joint account is definitely a better way to doing it. So is the joint account something that both of your incomes in come into and then all the bills go out of? So if you want to treat yourself and buy a beautiful book or something that you've been longing for, is there a process of checking in with the other person of like, hey, I want to buy this?
Or what's your policy around expenditure? No, definitely not. And if I ask him if I can buy anything, he's just gonna say, go ahead, because he knows that I doesn't treat myself. So he knows that I'm online. And so he knows that I definitely can. So no, I'm the one. Pulling back. Holding on to the money. He wants to spend everything.
And he thinks that I should spend everything on myself as well. Why I don't ask him if I should, because he always says yes. So no, not really. And he doesn't ask me either if he wants to buy a jacket or. Whatever that could be. And does that feel good? The way the money works? Yeah, because I think we are both quite, I mean, there's no one that goes wild, really.
Maybe he does spend a bit more because his clothes are much more expensive than mine are. But when you think about your kind of day to day, it sounds like you're doing a lot of this yourself. Do you have any support that you bring in either from family or that you pay for within your home or your babysitting or whatever it is?
No. Nope. Nope. We don't live close to any family at all. We don't have any relatives in Stockholm, so it's only been us since the kids were born. We used to have a cleaning lady. Uh, and then the, the kids a year ago wanted to start, um, horse riding, which is quite expensive. So I felt that, okay, if we give up the cleaning lady, we pay for the horse riding.
And then I, I've not missed it much. Um, well, of course it would be nice for someone to clean sometimes, but you know, I'm also the person that cleans before the cleaning lady arrives. It was quite stressful. We found out that she was scheduled on a Wednesday and then I knew I was going to spend Tuesday evening just clearing the mess in the house before she comes.
I'm not booked anymore cleaning so far. I might, I might do. And those services are quite expensive in Sweden, both for cleaning and babysitting and whatever that can be. So that might be a reason why we have. No, I know if I book our cleaning lady, we pay about 125, 150 euros for those four hours, but we have great neighbors.
That can help out, they have, and the kids have been there one evening when we went to dinner and celebrated our 15th anniversary, they can watch the kids if I have to go to a school meeting, they can walk the dog, like today, one of my neighbors is going to walk the dog when I go into town for some meetings, and then I do the same for them, we have this small community around us, so I picked up two kids from school yesterday and then today someone else is going to walk my dog, and so we try to Help out as much as we can, as we live close and the kids know each other and they know that appearance, they feel safe being picked up somewhere, someone else or having dinner at their house or whatever that can be.
There are a couple of things I wanted to pull out and emphasize or look at in a different way from this part of the conversation. Number one, I love this. Acknowledgement of community, of neighbors, of friends that Johanna is giving us, you know, sometimes when we live in countries where we can't pay for support, support comes to us in different ways, whether that be through family, through building connections in our road, in our street, through mom's groups and so on So much of that is so, so helpful when we think about raising children or making decisions or commiserating after a bad day or celebrating with each other.
So having a look around at the community of women, do you have that in your life? Is that something you'd like to build? Is that something you'd like to express some gratitude for? Is that something you want to have more of? Is that something you want to acknowledge? I think is really, really useful, especially in those countries where maybe having.
Paid support isn't as common or isn't as accessible. Number two is this funny little piece around cleaning up before we hire cleaners in, right, that Johanna talks about, of like, it actually wasn't so helpful for me to get a cleaner in because I ended up cleaning before she came and I find so many women, my clients included, do this where we don't allow ourselves to show up As messy as we really are.
You know, I see this on coaching where women are coming to me and they saying, I just need to pull myself together before the session, or I'm sorry, I haven't thought about this before the session, or I need to be in a better mental space before the session's like, no dude. This is what coaching sessions are all about.
You're welcome to come with all the messy and all the emotions and all the indecision and all the confusion that's literally what you're paying me for is this time to help you come to clarity or to manage your stress or to make big decisions. And it's the same thing often with coaching. You know, our domestic space or whatever it is, like people shaving their legs before you know, they're going for a pedicure or people cleaning up their house before they're getting their cleaner in.
Can we let ourselves be messy and let ourselves get the full benefit of the support that we are paying for, right? If I'm paying for somebody to clean my house, can I actually let them clean the house [00:31:00] without me working and overworking prior to that? So, A little fun moment to think about where can you maybe let yourself be more supported, where can you let yourself Be a little bit messier and see what happens.
Experiment with that. That's often an edge for a lot of women. And finally, I wanted to pick up this piece of budgeting trade off that Johanna and Peter have done with their family, because I think that's also really valuable learning for children and really valuable discussion to have if we want to do horse riding, or if we want to get X, Y, Z, or if we want to have a family holiday.
Where is that money coming from and starting to have those conversations so that the decision doesn't sit only on your shoulders or only in your head, but it's something that is shared and children are learning that maybe not everything is possible. Just like we talked previously about timing here, we're talking about money, about cost, about resources.
You know, if we've only got so much, then what do we want to prioritize? What do we want to spend the money on? And building that as a part of education within your family is so, so beautiful. I love this takeaway from the conversation. That's the support net that we have. And most importantly, the moms are amazing and they pick me up when I have to.
So if someone knows that I've had a bad day or whatever that could be, when the kids are asleep, they will knock on my door with a bottle of wine and let me talk about it. Or they celebrate things, that's why we surprise each other when it's a birthday, you know, when I was elected to, you were on board, two days later they threw me a surprise party, it was so nice, and they are just lovely, so I think that that is support that you really need, especially when you are alone a lot, and I appreciate that, just having someone to talk to over a glass of wine, and just Thanks.
Talk about anything and nothing. It makes you feel better. Yeah. The value of community, the value of friends, right? I feel like we can't talk about this enough. Life is not worth living without friends. No, definitely not. And that they're living so close. It's, it's, as I said, they can come in like 9 30 in the evening, just pop by and you don't have to plan anything.
You don't have to go anywhere. It's just next door. That's really convenient. Great. I hope they all stay. No one's allowed to move. You hear that everybody on Johanna Street, stay where you are. Exactly. I wouldn't survive without you. As we think about closing, is there anything that you feel like you'd like to share about the way you do, maybe, I can't even use the word balance because it doesn't always feel balanced, but the way you hold work, parenting, household, domestic, admin relationship, is there anything that feels like it's unspoken that you'd like to add in?
I think one thing that I thought of is that as I do as much. And that I don't share it equal, I know that I'm always on plus, right? If it is that both of us have something we don't want to do on a Friday night. It's always me that are allowed to go because CSYL online is. And that gives me a sort of, um, freedom feeling knowing that if I want to do something I can do it, right?
Because I've done my course for so long, he's never going to catch up. So it sounds like there's a confidence there in if I want to take time, I will take time. If I've got plans, my plans are priority because I am in the everyday and I am doing the duty Monday to Friday. Okay. Exactly. If I want to go on a girl's trip, I will, but I have to give him some credit as well.
You know, when I travel a lot, you know, that I travel some, then he is at home [00:35:00] with a lot with the kids as well for a week or so. So it's not only me that is at home all the time. He does that as well. It might not be done the same way as I want it to be. I have to brush the kids hair when I get home. I have to clean and everything I have, but he, you know, he do it his way.
They are happy. They're being fed. They are. It's cool. Everything works. But yes, maybe a bit differently when I'm at home. Such an interesting one, this thing of when I let it go or I don't let it go because I want it done X, Y, Z way, or when I let it go, then I redo it because it's not done X, Y, Z way. Yes.
And you cannot do that so that he notices, cause then he feels bad. So you have to do it like middle of the night when he doesn't know that you were doing something. I feel like I could get into a whole lot of questions around that. Take this off into a coaching direction. And I know that so many of my clients struggle with that too, right?
I want to hand this [00:36:00] over. It's not sustainable for me to keep on doing it or keep on doing this on top of everything else. And I know that some people call it like a minimum level of care. I want it done to X standard. And do we talk about that? Do we share that? Do we have the same perception of what that standard is, right?
Because for somebody else, they may not mind if the clothes are folded this way. And for somebody else that feels really important. And so are we having discussions around this? Is it worth having the discussions? What makes me feel so strongly about these clothes? I know, I definitely know, but I feel it's been easier and easier during the years just to let it go.
Just, you know, leave it as it is, accept that it's not the way that you want to do it. It feels better when I do it. What's made it easier? I think that I have less time than I had before. If I'm thinking before the dog, before the two kids and you know, whatever time that I have to care about. Those things, it doesn't feel less important anymore.
So it's become less of a priority or it feels like it's rather let it get done in a different way than for me to do it in my perfect way. Thank you for sharing. I feel like that was a little nugget. Last question, what are you most proud of in yourself as you handle all these things? Gosh, that I do handle all these things, I guess.
I am still standing. Well, round of applause for that. Thank you so much for this time, Johanna. It has been lovely speaking to you.
Oh, I love having these conversations so, so much. Thank you for being here, for listening to the Work Family Me podcast. If you want to connect with me in real life, I would love that. You can find me on LinkedIn and I will put the link for my profile below so you can just click on that and connect with me.
See you out there.
I hope you enjoyed this conversation with Johanna and got some value from the discussions, habits and relationships she shares with us.
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“It’s so important to talk about the value of community and the value of friends..” -Maude