A conversation about work, parenting and life in Brazil
I sat down with Daniela Lima, who works in a large multinational company managing lots of teams, clients and money. She travels a lot for work and balances that and her life as a partner and mother to two beautiful children.
In this conversation, we delve into topics like creating a meaningful routine, using your time intentionally, getting the support you need, exercise, and children and mom guilt.
Daniela Lima (better known as Dani) is a Brazilian woman in her 40s living in São Paulo with her husband and two children. Dani has a legal degree; an MBA; two decades of expertise in immigration law and actively participates in professional associations. She currently works full time as the VP (Immigration Americas) for a large multinational corporation and balances that with mothering, dancing, partnering, travelling, reading, socialising and drinking champagne! How? Let's ask her!
In this episode, we discuss:
The obligations Dani has in her life and how she spreads her focus and energy
Where exercise fits in
How routine allows us to be more intentional with our time
A reframe around the guilt that working mothers often feel
How Dani works with her time to create a balance that works for her
Tips for managing finances with a partner
The thing that makes it all possible!
What Dani is most proud of in her life
To listen to the episode click here A conversation about work, parenting and life in Brazil or read the transcript below.
Welcome to the conversation today with Daniela Lima, who is Brazilian. She is from a legal background. She currently works in a large multinational company heading up teams in Latin America and North America. So it's a big job with lots of people, lots of teams, lots of clients, lots of money. She's also got two beautiful children at home.
She needs to travel for work. She is balancing that together with her partnership, with her family, with her friends. Let us sit her down and talk to her about how and what. This is all working for her. One of the things that I also just love so much about Dani is that in addition to holding all the adult things, she's got the sense of lightness and the sense of fun and the sense of play with it, which I think really shines through not just in this conversation, but also if you ever have the chance to meet her in real life.
So I'm really grateful for. Danny showing up here for this conversation. And I think you're going to get so much value out of it in terms of thinking about how routine might be able to serve you, how you're using your time intentionally or not, how support might be useful, thinking about exercise, thinking about children and mom guilt or not.
So these are all topics we're going to dive into together in our time together today. And I'm so happy that you're here and so delighted to have this conversation with you. Danny and to be able to share it all with you. Hi lovelies. This is Maud, women's burnout and leadership coach. You're listening to the work family me podcast, a series of conversations with women from different cultures and industries around the world about the behind the scenes of earning money, parenting, being in relationship and adulting all at the same time.
Here, we will discuss the challenges. Ideas and support structures that show up in co earning dual parenting situations and talk through some helpful strategies and mindsets. Why? So that you as a busy working woman can learn from others, implement what could make your life a little bit easier and share these with your family, friends, and colleagues.
We are at the forefront of working, parenting, and relating in a totally different way to previous generations. And there can be so much value in validating this and learning with each other. I'm so happy that you're here. Let's dive into the conversation for today.
So Dani, I know you, but no one listening knows you. So can you introduce yourself? Maybe tell us. Your name, where in the world you are, what your job is, and what your family situation is. Yeah, sure. So, my name is Daniela Lima. I'm a Brazilian. I'm based in Sao Paulo, Brazil. I work for an immigration company.
I'm an attorney, and I'm a VP, oversee all the American regions. I'm married. I have two kids, Guilherme, eight years old, and Mariana, four years old. And I have been with my husband, Julio, for a long time, have been married for 15 years. Congratulations. So you're talking about a big job. You're talking about having two children and a long term marriage.
Tell us about a regular week with your work and family. How does all of this set into your big full life? That's very interesting that you're going to start with this because, of course, when I'm not traveling, I have a routine, but I do travel a lot. So, in the last three months for, for example, I Went to New York two times.
I went to Mexico last week. I was in Buenos Aires. I was in Colombia before. So of course when I'm in Sao Paulo, I have a routine kids. I wake up early and I get the ready before go to to the gym. But before I prepare the breakfast and I have everything ready for the kids to go to this school. The arrangement here is I prepare the kids and my husband take the kids to the school so I can go to the gym.
So, when I'm not here, he needs to do everything by himself. Or sometimes I have my man or someone from the family supporting, but when they are not here, so my husband needs to do everything by himself. So, I started this day doing a gym. It's very important for me to have my one hour time for me. Or I go for a run, uh, when I'm traveling, I go for a run because I don't have the gym.
Or I go for dance classes. I think that's very important for me to start my day with some time for me. And I also like to, to swim because I think that when I'm swimming, I also organize my day. So it's a time that it's important for me in the morning. It's like, Okay, I'm ready. It's a new day. So what I'm going to do today, I kind of organise myself too and do some exercise.
This always gives me more energy. After this I really start to work, so I usually I just book my meetings not really early in the morning, so I have this time in the morning for me, because when the day starts, it's really hard to stop to do something for myself. So, I try to do this in the morning before I use, to have some excuse to say I don't have time for me.
So, the way that I find that the time for me, it's in the morning. I know that for some people may work at lunchtime, or At night, but for me, it's in the morning. It's almost having that non negotiable, like, where do I source my energy? Where do I have a moment to breathe? Where do I almost have that kind of moving meditation, right?
Of like, me, in my body, thinking about my life, thinking about my day. And to give yourself the kind of checking in of when does that work for me and being able to flex and like it doesn't work for me to do it later or to be waiting and so many of us are like, I'll squeeze it in whenever and it sounds like you're saying no, I need to start my day with that and it's actually really important both for.
for my own health and for how I organise my workload. Yes, exactly. And it's very interesting because if for any reason, like, I need to do something important for the work that I need to give up my time in the morning, my day is not the same. Just jumping in here to really emphasise how Dani prioritises exercise.
And I know that for so many of us, when our life gets. Busy or unpredictable, or we have curveballs or mountains of meetings or laundry, whatever it may be, exercise is often the one thing that goes. And we know that there is a research science data around there about how exercise improves our productivity, not to mention our mental health.
So in terms of concentration, lowering stress, increasing energy, time management, creativity, mental stamina, all the things. Exercise is good for that. So just a reminder here that this can be such a helpful thing to add in and keep consistent with. I love how Dani positions this in her day right as she wakes up.
So it is part of her routine. It's part of her waking up. It's part of how she sets out her day and she sees that. As part of her productivity, part of her efficiency, and not separate too. I'm with a bad rumor or just feeling I'm missing something. Our day is different. If I break my own rule to start the day having a time for me, just one hour.
If we work 12 hours a day, we can't have one hour. for us, right? So this is how I start. So after I started to work out the appointments, meetings, I, as I have like a large team, so I always talk too much with people. So, you know, meetings, clients, all these things, all the corporate work. And when I, again, when I'm in Sao Paulo, I have the break at the lunchtime to have lunch with the kids.
They arrive from the school at 1 p. m. So we have the lunch together and after this they go for their activities like English class or ballet or, uh, swimming. They have their activities in the afternoon. I keep them busy to avoid them to stay with the cell phone or YouTubes or all these things. So here.
Everybody does a lot of sports at this home, so if they play tennis or soccer, so a lot of activities in the afternoon. And while I'm working too, and um, we have the dinner together. My husband uses it right around 7 p. m. And we try as much as possible to have. Everybody together for the junior track, the junior together, you'll hear Danny talk about routine over and over again in this interview, she's created routine or structure both individually for her own day and for her family.
In other words, she's pre decided what she's going to do when or what they're going to do when. And this can be so useful for those of us who are pulled in many directions because it number one allows us to be really intentional with our time. We are putting in the things that are important to us, the things that matter, our help or our family or our social connection.
We are putting those into our calendar, into our diary, and we're letting all the other things fit around that versus. Waiting for a gap to open up. For us to be able to do that thing, right? So we're being intentional and proactive about how we're using our time and our energy. Number two, it can be really useful to create routine so that we don't have to spend time deciding and re deciding what we're doing when over and over again.
It frees us up not only from having to make the decision of, should I exercise or not? Danny just knows first thing in the morning, I do the lunch boxes, I get the breakfast sorted, and then I go and exercise. She doesn't have to decide what she's doing that morning. And number two, she doesn't have to wonder at other points in the day.
When am I going to fit exercise in? When am I going to do that again, right? So it frees her up mentally and emotionally because she doesn't have to make that decision over and over again. So routine can be so helpful to us in order to make sure that we're doing the things that we're putting in the things that we want to have in our lives and in order to free up our mental and emotional space.
So it sounds like you've kind of built a really nice, also like touch point in with when you kind of do your family, right? This quantity time around, we eat together at lunchtime, we have dinner together and almost letting that be enough. I don't think that's enough. I think that I work more than I should.
I think that that's manual lens and I think that the routine to organize the house because we also have the other things to do, like we need to organize how we're going to clean and buy the things, clothes and everything. So the routine for the families. It's exhausted, but I'll try as much as I can.
It's exhausted for me, and I think that ones of the owners, like, we need to think, we need to plan everything. I think, I see that my husband does a lot of things. He is a great, it's not, I can't say, no, I do everything by, by myself. It's not my case. I think that my husband does if I ask everything, but I feel that organised.
And think about, it's all on me. I think that this is what I would like to see more. Ecole, like the men's, also think, also plan, also do the things, you know. I think that here, I have help to clean the house, but I need to organize everything. I need to say, hey, you need to do this, this, and this, and that.
Please organise this, this, this, and that. I have someone here, but I still need to think, you know, and organize everything. With the routine, with the kids. I have the schedule on the free dash. This is the times. This is the thing. I do have some help, but I need to, to organise. This is what I think that's exhausted.
The activity itself, it's quite easy to do, right? But I think that plan, organise. And, um, see what time, who you're going to be doing something different and also with the routine. So to buy the things, to, to do the things for the house. And on the weekends we don't have anyone to help. So it's us that we need to, to do.
So yes, wash, we do. It's equal. We both do. It's not everything. on me. I think that it was much more on me, it's to planning and to organise it. And I think that's it's exercise for me, to be honest, because sometimes I say, if I do not do, someone will do, right? So I just try sometimes, okay, I do not think I do not organise, but I know that's not happened.
So I feel that I have, if I forgot to ask you to buy something, or if I forgot to plan something. I think this is not gonna, gonna help sometimes. So it sounds like in a way you're saying like in terms of action and support. I have that. You know, I have people who maybe I've hired to do cleaning. I know my husband helps me with the actions of childcare or looking after the home, but it feels like the thinking and the full planning and what they call the mental load, right?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Who's doing what, when, who's got the birthday party gift, who's written the card, is there toilet paper, what coffee, what are we doing this Christmas, should we organise our trip? All of that feels like it's yours to hold. And what I'm also hearing, which is interesting, is that you've tried to pull back.
You've experimented with, well, what if I don't? What happens then? And it sounds like not much happens then. Yeah. Has that been a conversation between the two of you, or what is it I've said with you right now? Yeah, I think that I can improve this. I think that I can need to let more things go wrong before I get ready, you know?
I think that, to be honest, now that I'm talking to you, I think that because I anticipate and I... Would like to have everything done, specifically when I'm not here, it's a kind of compensate sometimes. As I'm not here because I'm traveling, let me organize everything before I leave. And also, but maybe if they do not get ready at some point, they will do, right?
This is how it works in life. If someone is not doing that role, someone is going to jump to do that role. Maybe not like me. But we happen sometimes. But what I think that's interesting to mention, I compare my kids with other kids and of course I think that because I travel too much, I work so hard, a lot of friends mention or people from their family say, Hey.
How will you do that? Your family is always alone, or you are not at home, or kids miss you. So, I think that here in my family, it's everybody fine. We have our time together. We enjoy when we are together. Weekends, I don't never work on the weekend. As much as I'm traveling, I try to back for the weekend. To stay with them.
So I think that we are all good as a family, but others look and make some comments. But I see that the kids are more independent. So I see that if they are hungry, they just go for the fridge and pick up something because they know that they can do that. And I see that they can play well alone. I see.
They express themselves in a different way or you know, I see. They more independent. When I compare with the others, so we think that it's always like good things and bad things about when you don't have like men at home full time, look after the kids, you know. And so nice that you can see, because I think often, you know, the women that I work with tend to make themselves wrong for the choices that they make.
And they almost can't see the benefits of like, how does this actually serve people? Or how is this giving people opportunity to grow? And it sounds like you're saying, I can see my children have. Different kinds of opportunities and different skills that they've Developed. And isn't that also so beautiful?
I just want to pause here for a moment because in my one on one coaching, this theme of guilt around working or not being present with children is such a big one. And I want to just really validate what Danny's saying here around the skills that she's seeing her children build. And also to let you know that there are studies done by a number of universities, Harvard being one of them, of showing that.
Children of working mothers are the same level of kind of happy as children of families where the mother is staying at home. And in fact, daughters who grew up with a working mother tend to have higher salaries in their own jobs and be able to obtain higher level, higher responsibility positions. Just putting that out there for anyone who needs to hear it right now.
When they start to grow up and they start to see things like, one example, I remember that one of the kids in school, I was talking with other mothers, and some of them doesn't work, and they were talking about, uh, complain about the school, the planning school. And I was mentioned, oh, I really like this project.
They are working on this ecological green project. And after they were studying Mandela, they were talking about some, And I was mentioned the projects that they were studying, and the men were looking to me, so what they were talking about. So, at the end, I was traveling, not passing out the week at home close to Guy, but I knew everything that he was studying, we were discussing about this.
So, and men that are at home, All day, even know the project that the kids were working all day school. So for me, a couple of examples like that was made me feeling not guilt, because when I am here, I am here. So I see the lessons, I be talking about what's going on at the school, and at the end, I realize that this is much more important for the kids than I'm stay at home 100%, but not focus on them.
This is what I see. I think that some, some people that give up about their life or their professional life, I'm not speaking only about professional life, but sometimes about their life, things that they like to do. I know friends that used to dance and stopped to dance because it's. Full time concentrated on kids in school.
So it's not all about work. For me, it was never an option. I would like to be a mother, always. I always had the plan. I would like to have a family, I would like to have children. And I don't want to stop to work. And I do want to keep in my life, I enjoy my friends, I like to go out, I like, so for me it was not I have to make a decision, I have to balance everything, so it was never a choice, I never thought about to have a choice.
But begging for this to fill in guilt was very clear for me when I start to talk with other mothers and see the life and see the kids, I say, why am I feeling it? Because I don't need to feel that because when I'm here, I'm kind of participate more than other people that stay hundred percent. But they're not happy or not concentrate on what they're doing.
So I think that this is another thing that maternets give to me. When I am, I am. I love that. When I am, I am like, almost like be where your feet are, right? And such a God. Reminding, because I think guilt is an emotion that comes up so often when we have multiple things that we pay attention to, right?
Guilty that I'm not working more, guilty that I'm not parenting more, guilty that I'm not in my relationship more, and it sounds like you saying when I'm there, I recognise that I'm deeply there and I'm curious and I'm paying attention and I'm remembering. And I'm prioritising that quantity. Quantity doesn't always mean better.
Yes, exactly. And I think that one thing that I always mention here at home, and we talked a lot about this, is like, Before I be a wife, who is a wife, and before I be Maddie's and Guy's mother, I am Daniela. So, who I am, to be happy, what makes me happy? So, I like to go out with my friends to have drinks and about the life sometimes.
I need this. I travel because of, of the work, but I do like to travel too, because I feel that I have my space to read a book, to see Instagram. So, I feel that I need my time alone too. Of course, I love to stay married and I love to spend time with my family, but before all these things, I feel that I need my time too.
I need to be like I mentioned, do my exercise, but I'll go out to see friends and do something for me. So, I think that is also important when we're talking this at home, like, my husband loves sports too, but he loves to go to soccer and watch his team play, so go for it. I can stay with the kids once a week.
And he can go for the things that he, he thinks like, it's the same like kids, he loves to play things. He'll go for your tennis tournaments, we're going to support you to do this. So what I'm trying to say that it's important to be everybody together and spend the time together. But I think that's individual times.
It's important too. I think that you will enjoy more your time. As a family, if you have your individual lives too, you have more to share, you are more happy because when, again, when we are together, we enjoy our time together. So we changed it a little bit to this routine, because when, as I mentioned, I was traveling, so when I was here, we were doing everything together, all the time together, and at some point, I would say, hey, I would like to see my friends along just to talking about things that we never talk with kids or husbands, you know.
So we change a little bit the routine. Of course, when the kids start to grow up a little bit, because when they are very, very young, it's hard to do this. But now I think that we were able to, to discuss, we are able to talk about this and we are Able to reinvent ourselves as a family to change a little bit the routine.
And I think that what another thing that we do like to do together, is to spend the weekend out of the city, because as we live in Sao Paulo, that's a... business city, and a lot of people all the time. And I ask, you know, all the big cities in the world is the same. So not every weekend, but at least once a month, we escape as a family together, or we go for the beach, two hours driving, or we go to the countryside, two or three hours riding and spend the weekend.
Sometimes with friends, but sometimes just us. I think that's another thing that it's very interesting for me because it's everybody out and do not check Instagram or cells or anything. And we really talk and we really talking about things that's happened in their lives and we share more. I think that be out of the routine, be out of the house sometimes, at the trips we connected more.
Yeah, it sounds like the time away from the everyone and the plans and the tennis to be the four of you, but then you're also saying, and we support each other to do individual things and bring that passion into our lives and then back together as a family. And I see so many women supporting that for others, right, of like, let me take my children all over the place to play whatever sport that they're into at that moment, or, you know, my husband watches rugby every weekend or whatever it is, and I facilitate all of that, and I don't extend that same grace to me.
So what makes it possible for you to say. That's important to me, and I need that, and I give myself permission to do that. Yeah, I think that it's, as I said, I, when I realized that I was missing something, I was able to change, because at the beginning, with the kids very little, and I was like, very concentrated on this, but I was seeing that I was missing something.
I was, hey, I was before, as I said, before be a man and before be a, a wife, what I used to do that was gave me energy or what makes me happy. So, um, and I talked with them. Now that the kids understand everything, we talk as a family, but I talk with my husband first, say, Hey, I'm missing to be with my friends.
And it was interesting because I never stopped to have my friends. I'm very social, I have a lot, a lot of friends. But for a while I stopped just seeing my friends alone because, or they were not married or they were VOing or no kids. So it was just in seeing, uh, friends with kids. And I would say no. I have other friends that are super interest people that I do love them.
Why I'm disconnecting with these people? So I reconnected with them and, uh, and I have a couple of friends that we see each other twice a year, but we see each other, you know, so it's important for me to keep these connections too. And the way that I find that this piece, it was talking, say, Hey, sometimes I need to go out with my, my friends and everybody respect what I have as agreement as a family, do not do this alone on the weekends.
So I try to book my lunchtime or happy hours during the week because on the weekend we try as much as possible to stay together. It sounds like that's a really clear kind of bubble almost for you, which almost gives them more permission, maybe in the week, right, of there's time to exercise. There's time to be social.
There's time to maybe work late if I need to, because I know that I've got these pockets of family time where I'm ready in the family time. I think that's such great, like takeaway advice as well. When we know we're going to do something, we don't have to be thinking about it all the time, right? I'm like, no, the time is there and I can see where that is.
One of the things that I find can be such a thing is time. When we are in that kind of rushing around, working, parenting, partnering, and how have you negotiated time for me versus time for you, who's doing what, when, because that can often turn into a little bit of Conflict. First thing. I think that you need to be very well organised.
I think that he feels, he feels a plan. I think that, at least for me, works on this way. One thing that internet bring to me, I think that I become more efficient in terms of organize my time after the kids. Just example. Okay. Before the kids, I used to arrive at the office at nine, but I was able to stay at the Off.
You were working until wait. It doesn't matter because I don't have anyone waiting for me. After I become a man, it's like I need to start to work at 9, but I need to stop at 5 or 6 because I have much more other things to do. So I concentrate myself. I do not spend a lot of time chatting with people about what is not important during the work hours or do not make like two hours lunch, talk with the team about things that's not important.
So I try to organise my times of work much better, organise my schedule. So this gives me more time free. At night or, or in the morning. So I think that's more to organise. And I think that the routine, when you have the things in your routine, facilitates. I'm not the person, as I say for friends, I can go to anywhere or can meet with anyone, but I need to organise some everything.
It's not like last minute, unfortunately. Some friends that don't have kids or work less hours say, Oh, I like that someone called me last minute and they changed my plan and I go. It's not how it works with me, unfortunately, because for I be able to go out for friends, I need to see my husband's schedule, or I need to have someone coming to home to see the kids.
So it looks like if you call me the last minute, I can't. So the way that I find, it's organised myself, is to see, okay, let's plan next week. On Wednesday, I will ask, I will. Problem in close my agenda early. So I know that probably what needs to make things fast to close these and I need to plan. the dinner, and someone will be here at home to look after the kids until my husband arrives, or check if my husband is able to arrive before.
So again, it's organising, thinking, planning, and organising. And fourthly, sometimes people say, Hey, Dani, I'm in Sao Paulo, I just
And it sounds like between you and your partner, there are constant discussions of like, hey, I've got this going on, or I'd like to make time to see this friend, or I've got this dance class. Can you cover that? What's going on for you? And there's that kind of... Openness around your wishes and your schedules and your diaries.
And I remember also when we were chatting before we had this call, you were talking about discussing finances among the way, and both of you making changes in your career or working time. And it sounds like it's such a skill that you've developed in partnership is to have these open discussions. If you don't mind, like, how do you do finances together?
How have you had those conversations about who's prioritizing what when? This is very interesting. This is also, like, one of the hard conversations that we had in the past, because, like, when we met each other, he's a dentist, I'm an attorney, so when, uh, he's five years older than me, so when I met him, he was making much more money than I am.
So, when we decided to live together, even before getting married, he was paying much more the bills than I was able to pay. So, like, uh, he were, I was paying, like, 30 percent of the costs of the apartment, and he was paying much more. But I was able to develop on my career and I was like growing in the career in a different way.
I think he has his private practices. So it's different. It's just one person when you work on the corporate side. I think that you have other opportunities than we are on your own, right? So I was growing, growing, and now I made more money than he does. So a couple of years ago, when this started to change, He was the first one that said, Hey, Danny, I think that we need to reveal.
And I said, yes, you are absolutely right. Because I was paying more for the holidays, I was playing more the fun things, but he was still paying for the man bills at the park, like electricity, water, you know, all these expenses. And I said, yes, absolutely. So we review it. So basically who wants more, pay more.
So he said, now we're going to pay this, this, this, and then pay this, then this. And it was clear. We revisit this and okay. It was not hard, this conversation. What it was hard, it was another conversation when I started. To travel and you have the kids because when I was traveling, you know, kids, it was not a problem.
But as I said, I was for me was not an option to be a professional and be a man. So as I mentioned, I was traveling, breastfeeding because of this. I was making everybody's lives confusing because my mom or my husband had to travel with me to support me. It was impossible to travel alone and they were supporting me and I remember my mom said, I know that she will go anyway.
It's better if you support her because otherwise she will travel anyway with the kids. So, but I was super glad that I had my mom and my husband supporting this, but he had to work less if he works less. He makes less money. So at some point I had to say, Hey, you need to reduce your hours because otherwise this will never work.
So at the beginning was hard for him. It was hard the first conversation, because when he started to look for the numbers, say, if I need to pay for someone to pick up kids at school, I need to pay, it was like, and who are you going to spend the time? Because it was not like to pay someone to cover you.
It's like, who are you going to be at home with the kids if you stay working more hours? So he organized his schedule, so he works less. Of course, he makes less money, so I need to pay more. It was like difficult for him at the beginning to say, Hey, I will work less, so I will have less money. How are you going to be my life?
I was never say I make more money. So I was trying to not position myself on this way. I was always showing the practical situation. If you keep in work long hours, if you do not stay, who are you going to be here? If I need to give up my, my work or do not travel, first, it's not what I want. So I was not positioned to talk only about money, but talking about what was important for me.
I would say, Hey, I do like my work. I do like to travel. I do like to do these things, but we need to see what do. So work works for us. Works and I don't see that he. feel bad or feel less because we did this disarrangement. I think that for him, and we had this discussion, it's like if he had to give up completely, he's not happy to stay at home 100 percent of his time and be 100 percent just a father staying at home.
He made his this very clear for me. Again, it was conversation and open conversation and a balance. He said, I can reduce my time, but I'm not going to stay hundred, hundred percent. So anyone here, we need to balance this. I think it's also, it's so worth kind of repeating and noticing that it sounds like repeated conversations.
It's not just We've chatted about it once in 1995, and now we have to do that forever. You know, you're saying we had a conversation when we started around who's paying what. We had another conversation when my career started taking off. We then shifted things when we had the baby. We shifted things again when we had the second baby.
When I got another opportunity and I was traveling, we had another conversation. You know, it's like almost that ads were coming into different seasons in work and family and what's important to us in that moment. What are you willing to give up? What am I willing to give up? What's more important? What works with us as a family?
And those ongoing investigations. Exactly. And the other thing that helped us is like, for us, an upload kit. expenses all the time. So we had a disagreement. I paid this bill. He paid this bill. Also, we have our investment together. So he puts some money every month there. I put some money every month there.
What he does with the rest of his money, it's his problem. What I do with the rest of my money, it's my, my, my problem. This other thing that helped us when we used to have the credit card together, everybody looking for the Expenses. So he was, oh, how much spend, spend, how you spend last money, how much it took.
So this, it was crazy. So we said, what? What? Again, what? We agreed again, here's the bill, pay this and that. Okay, let's go for the invest. Every month you put this and we put this done. This is what, how we do the rest. It's our life. He's, if he would like to spend all his money in the beers, if I would like to spend all my moneys in dresses, whatever, it's our soy again.
together, but also keep the individual. I think that's another thing that's, it was very, very important for, for us. I feel like that's a Daniela Lima theme, like together and individual, not in the boat. Tell me about, you were mentioning when you were talking about being in community and people making comments about like, Oh, you're poor children and you're traveling, you're wasting so much.
I know that you're in Brazil and there's a different kind of cultural norm maybe about how family works or what women do. What kind of pattern did you both grow up with? Did your parents both work? That's very interesting because, yes, in Brazil it's much more like, still, uh, like, women stay at home or women give up careers and men go for work and women support.
Still, we see that it's a lot of change, it's changing, it's more and more in coma, but still, like, traditionally speaking. But we both, I and my husband, our both parents, both was working. So, my man was working and I had my grandmother supporting her, exactly, like, see, repeating. When my grandmother, she was not working, she was supporting my man with me and my brother.
So, uh, my, But she was, she was not traveling, but she was working all day. And my father was the one that was picking us up at the school, having lunch with us, because my father, uh, he had more flexible hours. He, so he was able, my mother was working for a company, eight hours per day, but my father was working by himself, uh, and so, um, he had his thing, so he was able to, uh, Pick up at the school and stay more time with us, but both were, were working.
So, and for my husband, it was the same situation. Both parents was, was working, not traveling, not working long hours, but both were working. So I think that for us, we both grew up with people working hard to be able to give a better future for the children, you know? So for us, it was not like super different experience.
So, yeah. That's so interesting how in a culture where it's still quite different, both of you had these kind of generational patterns or examples of both parents working, and so it sounds like it feels like more your normal. Yeah, it was part of the routine that we grow up. So it was like everybody had to have like, uh.
For me, when I was growing up, when Most Children’s was like, I had to do my lessons, my homework while alone because my mom was working, so I have to do my things like organise my, my space or you know, like I see my kids be more in depth and I try to not regret at all. I never felt like my mom was never there to support me.
It wasn't. I was never had this feeling. I was not missing anything because I get my mom now. It was always she arrived early at 5 p. m. She was at home. So we were always together. And on the weekends, we were always together. So I didn't feel that I was missing something, you know. What a nice feeling to have as you have the support with your mother, right, because you were saying, you know, you, you pull in the support and some of it you pay for and some of it is family and some of it is like your mother also filling this role with your children and, and adding to that care that your family has.
Yes, I think I'm very glad that I have this. And I think that's the only way to do. I know that I can do. the things because I have sports. I know I have been talking with other women that was not able to develop on her career because she did not have the sport or she got a divorce and that. Ex husband do not support as much or don't have family close by or not are able to pay.
So I know that my life works because I have all this support. If I had to do everything by myself, it's going to be impossible. So I have a lot, a lot of support from the family, from my man. I have my aunt that sometimes can come to home to help me. So I really do have support family. It's really, really important for me.
It's a big support for me. I really want to jump in here to emphasise what Dani is saying about support. I hear a couple of my one on one clients making themselves wrong for needing support, for reaching out for support, for paying for support, for not being able to do everything by themselves. And I just want to amplify and highlight here that Danny is hiring in staff to help with cleaning, to help with babysitting.
She has a husband who's working part time. She has her mother who is supporting her. She's sometimes pulling in her aunt to be able to help with the kids. So there is a whole lot of support around her. And I just really want to emphasise that for those of us who are maybe feeling a little bit edgy about asking for support.
It is literally impossible to be holding a full big job where you're traveling, or maybe even any kind of a job, right, where you're needing to spend your time and energy somewhere else and be caring for children full time and be managing a household and admin and bills and tax and everything that goes along with that.
So full permission for all of us to think about. Where do we need support, whether that be in our business or whether that be at home or whether that be with our children and then where are you going to be able to get that from? And I love also viewing that as a privilege, right? You're saying like, if we don't have this within our Soundly circle or within our partner or have the resources and the money to pay for it, it's really hard to be a woman who's holding both work and family like there's just not enough time and energy in the day.
So if anyone's got that, like lean. Exactly. No, I, I, I completely understand some almost that give up after I, I haven't seen these a lot in my, in my company or clients are close by. They have first children, they keep working. When they have the second children, they stop to work because probably the money that they are making is not enough to pay true child care or it's very common that you see that you lose senior manager or some like when they become manager and they decide to have the second children give up probably because they do not have the support.
I see that for, I think that I haven't seen one of these days, someone telling to grow up the kids. You need like a group to be able to make the kids growing up when you live in, in communes. They are, the person that was talking, was talking about the, uh, the indigenous, how they grow up all together as a community.
And they were saying that they grow up as a community because all the community support. And I was thinking about this on my life, like I have like a lot of support of the community to grow up. My, my, my children make myself. Be able to work more and be successful, not only my career, but also enjoy my life.
If I don't have all the supports, I'd be 100 percent here and probably not consider myself happy as I'm considering now. So it's very, very interesting. I think it's also, it's one of these places where it almost like equality hasn't caught up yet, right? Because you either need the community or you need a wife, right?
I don't know what we're saying is. When men have two children, we still see them in the senior management role, and there's no problem, and they continue on with their career, and it's barely even a blink in their eye, and maybe they take some days off around the birth, and when women have two children, they either need to tap into a whole bunch of support, or they really need to have a partner who's willing to kind trainings.
Be in that both on a mental and emotional and a physical. Yes, exactly. So this is all my point Why it's always woman that need need to give up of the career Why do not husband or why do not the man was say who is making more money or who can? Stay at home. Why it's always woman that give up You know, I think that we need to change this, need to be more equal and need to negotiate.
And have different conversations, right, based on maybe interest or opportunity or finances versus on this gender norm. And so I'm hoping that having these conversations invites us to think about how we're doing it traditionally and give us opportunities to do that differently. Last question for you, what are you most proud of in what you've created in your life?
I think that... Be able to manage all these things. I think that they need to be happy and enjoy my life because what I see, honestly, what I see, it's a lot of women that are super concentrated to be super hardworking and be successful. And sometimes this makes them like more. codes or serials and just be, just focus on work, work, work, work.
I need to be super serious. I need to do this and this and this and just concentrate on work and do not enjoy their life. And also I see people, okay, I'm a nun, I need to be a nun, I need to be an example for my children. I need to focus 100 percent on my kids and this is my life. And for me, I think that, as I said before, it was not an option before.
I would like to do everything. This is like me. I would like to go to parties. I'd like to travel. I'd like to enjoy my life. But I don't like my work. And I love to be a man. I can't imagine my life nowadays without my family. So I think that be able to enjoy all these things and, uh, enjoy the life. And, uh, it's still with a lot of good energy.
I think that. Yeah, I think that I did what I was playing, you know, like, um, you need to live the life that you imagine. So when I was imagining my life, I was imagining my life exactly like this. I'm super happy. I know that I would like to have more time free or do everything. We always think that it's, it's possible to do better, right?
But I think that I'm doing pretty well because I'm happy. I love my life. I enjoy my life. I've got like chills as you say, like it's exactly what I would have wanted it to be such a nice feeling to have. And I think also like this permission to enjoy it, right? I do so much and I bring this energy of like, I'm having fun with it.
I mean, I can feel that right now as you're talking. It's not just hard work and hustle and what's the next thing to do and where's the next list. I'm having fun as I go along, which sounds like it makes it all sustainable. Exactly. So yeah, so it's like sometimes I talk with people and see that everybody's super happy.
When you talk with the work, people, it's like, it's heavy. And when you talk with money, it's heavy. It's not saying that it's easy for me, but I try to make this easier as much as possible. Like you said, have fun, enjoy. If today I'm on the, as a man role, let me enjoy, let me play, let me stay happy with them.
Even if I'm working, let me concentrate to the work, let me happy here. But also I mentioned before all these things, what made me happy, spend time with friends and have my time. So that's it. I think that I'm proud that I was able to balance all these things. Do not need to make an option like I heard from some people.
I don't have two dreams because I decide to be successful in my career. I respect that. But not for me. Like, the same. I give up my career because I would like to concentrate on my kids. Okay, I respect that. That's good for you. That's not good for me. You're like, but I've learned it all. Beautiful. Thank you so much for your time, Dani.
It was really, really lovely chatting. My pleasure. My pleasure. Thank you so much, Maud. Ah, I love having these conversations so, so much. Thank you for being here, for listening to the Work Family Me podcast. If you want to connect with me in real life, I would love that. You can find me on LinkedIn and I will put the link for my profile below so you can just click on that and connect with me.
See you out there.
I hope you enjoyed this conversation with Dani and found value in learning how she grows her successful and busy career AND shows up as a present parent and partner AND is conscious of her health and sense of self. May we all have moments of fun as we do the things!
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“It can be really useful to create a routine so that we don't have to spend time deciding and re-deciding what we're doing and when over and over again.” -Maude
“I would like to be a mother, always. I always had that plan. I would like to have a family, I would like to have children, and I don't want to stop working.” -Dani